| Discussion Threads Every now and then you get a really good, informative thread. Or, there are topics that are questioned every week. In here you will find posts made on this forum that members find useful - moved here for easy finding. |
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May 27, 2008, 09:06 PM
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#41 (permalink) |
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Re: Hatse and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
If the spreadsheet is accurate, does it matter?  Like I said, its gear dependant so you can't just assume thats its not valuable for someone in T4 content if they have a lot of craftables/badge gear and thats highly likely these days.....so as I said and reiterate now...you HAVE To check your own stats. If its valuable to you, regardless of content, use it.
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight |
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May 27, 2008, 09:21 PM
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#42 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Purebalance 80 Human Warlock Muradin US PvE Guild: Shadowraven Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/50/21 |
Re: Hatse and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
:-P once again I'm not saying I forbid people to use it(I wish I had those powers.....le sigh I'd rule the world). The whole title of this thread is theory craft vs real raid situations though. Even though I disagree with some if it's calculations, the spreadsheet itself says that even at 1480 shadow damage, hit capped, 30.32% total chance to crit, 1 Haste rating is just equal to 1.06 damage and 1 crit rating is equal to 1.02 damage. Sacrificing any of those forementioned stats however will change the value of such. For example, trading a 10 haste gem for one of the currently socketted 12 spell damage drops your dps by 2 and turns it to 1 haste rating=1.04 damage and 1 crit rating=1.01 damage. Basically it proves my initial point. For haste to be truly effective for dps you get the haste as it comes in the 25 mans. Gemming/gearing for haste when your spell damage and crit and maybe even hit are not where they should be will lower your dps. Now to speak from real raid situations like the title says, I don't use haste yet. My first haste piece will be a ring or the skull. I do however stack crit and am not hit capped and as I said I keep up with the top of the damage done on boss fights and typically I am the top. So anyone could "prove or disprove" any stat in a situation. If it works for you and your guild isn't hurting "don't fix what isn't broken". If you gemming for haste is working for you excellent. More power to you.
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May 27, 2008, 09:39 PM
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#43 (permalink) | |
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Re: Hatse and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
Quote:
No. Edit: Didn't mean that to sound blunt - we all know that random mechanics can favour different people at different times so a lot of theorycrafting revolves around removing the random element in order to improve in a predictable manner and I really do think that crit is heavily over-rated. I see 2700+dps locks with around 23% crit stacking haste because it scales so dramatically.....and I honestly think that you don't need T6 gear in order to achieve very respectable results with haste gemming/itemisation. Could you achieve the same DPS with gear from the same level without haste? I can only anecdotally say that my DPS has increased since being able to stack a little haste but the one point I will concede is that the most dramatic results are seen in T6+ gear....I'll still stick by my statement that you can utilise haste before then with success.
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight Last edited by Theleb; May 27, 2008 at 10:11 PM.. |
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May 28, 2008, 01:58 PM
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#44 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Purebalance 80 Human Warlock Muradin US PvE Guild: Shadowraven Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/50/21 |
Re: Hatse and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
My example I listed though was in all ZA/BT/MH and 2 pieces of t5 and the 2 blasting pieces(which according to everything I've read Belt of Blasting should stay until t6 belt). The other thing to note is something else that had been said before in this post is that certain levels of haste will increase your dps, but then stacking more beyond that quantity will lower it. The biggest reason people stack haste in gems is because you get more haste per gem because although they each may be both 10's and 5's on their gems, it takes more rating of crit to achieve 1%. Most(and I say MOST not all) of the easily obtainable haste gear (with the exception of the crafted BT bracers{t6 content although you can get them crafted from someone} and the neck from ZA) has decently lower damage on it than another piece of gear with a semi equal amount of crit rating on it. Also lowering your crit in favor of a higher haste is also hurting your raid's dps due to the uptime of ISB then as well, esp if you only run 3 locks. |
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August 14, 2008, 05:30 AM
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#45 (permalink) |
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Re: Haste and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
Pre Sunwell Damage>Crit>Haste because you cannot stack sufficient haste to make it worthwile. The reason for this is for most fights even slight mobility makes it extremely difficult to make haste useful without stacking it like sunwell allows. In addition to that there are only a few pieces you can get with haste on them which are even worth it itemisation wise. The only 4 pre sunwell bring: -Bracers of Nimble Thought (Crafted with hearts of darkness) for the reason that it has more haste than you can find of crit on anything else pre t6 -Mana Attuned Band (Zul Aman 3rd chest timed event) A very nice damage/hit ring which also has the added bonus of haste -Skull of Gul'Dan One of the best 2 trinkets ingame has a haste use amazing -Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer A very acceptable alternative to the Chronicle / Tempest combo if your getting ready for a sunwell haste set or if you simply have no problems with hit at all. The bt trash ring is not as great as getting rings with hit on them in bt is more important because of how readily available it is and how good it is to get yourself off of Damage/Hit gems. Also with the Kael/Vashj vial ring from MH rep you realistically only have 1 other ring to equip. The ZA ring stated above and the ring off the first boss of BT Najentis (Ring of captured storms) being far superior as they relieve your 202 hit issue easier (possibly help you unequip your Scryer Bloodgem or Fused Nethergon Band). As for gemming crit vs haste unless your making jumps of haste which change you sbolt casts in intervals of 0.1 seconds meaning 60-62 haste or 2.5-2.4-2.3 etc. you are not going to see a realistic difference pre sunwell so gemming haste is usually completely unneccisary and your far better off praying for the gem to cause a crit proc. Also for the argument of Haste also increasing your ISB uptime at this level. With this minimal amount you will see absolutly no difference in ISB uptime unless you have an obecene amount of crit and are in a fight with no mobility. Spriests get the charges to fast and nooblocks in your guild who stack haste before getting 25% crit kill the charges to fast. If you want to safely stack haste pre sunwell the 4 items stated and possibly 1 Reckless Pyrestone (In combination with the Bracers and ZA ring) will give you 1% which is more than enough without gimping your other stats. Besides that get your crit up god knows there is another lock in your guild who isn't and you need to make up for his slack. Oh and the reason why Bracers of nimble thought are so acceptable is because the next best thing available to you are either Guardian's Silk Cuffs or Cuffs of Devestation (one from PvP one from rage winterchill respectively). Nimble Thought - 34Damage 28haste 20int No Socket Guardian's Silk Cuffs - 30damage 18crit 25int Yellow Socket Cuffs of Devestation - 34damage 14crit 20int Yellow Socket Sorry if there are any spelling errors or if anything is abit grammar bad it's late >_< |
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August 18, 2008, 04:34 AM
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#46 (permalink) |
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Re: Haste and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
Can't be bothered reading through all those walls of text so i'll just ask a simple question. Is there a 'theoretical' cap for spell haste when things such as Skull of Gul'dan, Bloodlust and Drums are taken into account? |
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August 19, 2008, 05:18 AM
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#47 (permalink) |
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Re: Haste and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
Well the gcd cap is 1.0 seconds (last time i checked) so once you get enough haste to speed up your sbolt to 1.0 seconds you are technically 'capped' But for that you would need 60% haste. Heroism/Bloodlust 30% Skull of Guldan 11% Drums of Battle 5% Gear Requirement for cap 14% This is ofcoarse for sbolt being a 2.5 second cast. So if you have around 200 spell haste on gear the cap is very attainable and you can be spamming 1.0 second sbolts. |
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| Crit, Haste, Raid, real, situations, Spell Crit, Spell Haste, theorycraft |
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