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| Discussion Threads Every now and then you get a really good, informative thread. Or, there are topics that are questioned every week. In here you will find posts made on this forum that members find useful - moved here for easy finding. |
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August 29, 2008, 09:23 PM
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#31 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
The answer depends on two things: a) The individual stat weighting. Taken in isolation gem for whichever combination gives you the highest possible DPS increase. Personally that would be a reckless pyrestone x 2 and glowing shadowsong amethyst x 1..BUT see point b) b) The quality of the rest of your gear. I have a reasonable amount of haste so I can stack that particular stat and not gimp other areas. If you're not in that situation then stacking a minimal amount of haste, whilst obeying the stat weight in theory, doesn't always give the best results because it doesn't achieve the "minimum valueable effect" of a noticeable reduction in SB casts - I tend to believe the rule of thumb that "if you're not in SWP, don't gem haste" holds true. Here's the thing, even in SWP gear the difference on a gem-by-gem basis is very marginal but the overall effect is massive - even if the difference is less pronounced than in a crit vs haste comparison.
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight |
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August 29, 2008, 10:54 PM
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#32 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
Thanks for the reply, In regards to the second part of your reply lets assume that you do have a reasonable amount of haste. I think its reasonable to assume that any given progressing lock will have at least 1 piece of haste gear that just happens to be best in slot for them and they will use it regardless of whether they gem haste or not. Without agreeing that there is such a thing as a "minimum valuable effect" lets assume you already achieve it. What leads you to the conclusion that 2 reckless pyrstones, 5haste/6dmg, is better than 1 5haste/6dmg and 1 runed crimson spinel at 12dmg? The first combo gives you 10 haste and 12 damage for a total of 22 individual stats. The second gives you 5 haste and 18 damage for a total of 23 individual stats. As for the blue gem you can get 6dmg/7stam (glowing shadowsong amethyst) or 5haste/7stam (forceful seaspray emerald). If 10haste and 12 damage is better than 5 haste and 18 damage why isnt 5haste/7stam better than 6dmg/7stam? Right now I'm think my choice would be 1 runed spinel, 1 reckless pyrestone, and 1 glowing amethyst, but I'm not sure which is why I'm asking. |
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August 29, 2008, 11:13 PM
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#33 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
My guild has recently cleared BT however since we went through it so fast we're kind of held back from going to Sunwell based on lack of 4pT6 people. The way I see it, till Sunwell, there isn't exactly enough haste gear that will make much of a benefit (Unless you have the 3rd timer ring off ZA, the haste staff off Illidan and maybe the haste cloak off the 1st timer). Gemming your gear with the haste & spell damage gem will give you small haste increments but without those pieces of gear, it's kind of a waste of sockets. At least that is how I currently am. Waiting for those pieces of haste gear to drop to bump up my current gem-provided haste to something more substantial. Like it would be nice to use the haste gem version for the blue socket but you won't really see a benefit from that haste till you have enough gear to make it work. Till then the crit gem seems to work. However, if you gem for the crit, when you actually do have the haste to make things work, you'll need to regen. If you currently gem with haste in mind for the future, then when you do get the items, you'll see a market improvement. I'm not sure if that post made sense, sorry > < |
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August 30, 2008, 12:00 AM
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#34 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
For my personal stat weighting, I get better values from haste than damage - its worth more DPS. As for the second gem question if the socket bonus is damage, go with haste/sta - if its not, don't. Oddly, the spreadsheet seems to contradict itself here because again, might be my personal values but GSA provide a better DPS boost for me than haste/sta gems (as long as the socket bonus is damage at least - T6 chest for example - and yes, I have gemmed mine incorrectly and never changed it).....even if haste is "worth more. No, I don't have a good explanation as to why that should be right now as its 5am and I can't sleep  As for a minimal effective value - .1s off the cast time is worthwhile in my opinion as haste stacks multiplicatively with other haste effects (so if a gem in addition to another item achieves that, I would use it). With other variables (lag, human reactions) to take into accout while haste is better on paper from earlyish T6 content I wouldn't bother personally until very late T6/SWP.
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight |
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August 31, 2008, 04:39 AM
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#35 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
When you say haste is worth more dps to you personally, do you just mean that a dps calculator or spreadsheet is saying that? Is there any math to explain why 10 haste and 12 damage is better than 5 haste and 18 damage? My thought is that you get more out of putting a 12 damage gem in a red socket because you get 12 stats rather than 11. If you do that for every red socket you have, depending on your gear, it could add up to getting an additional 5-8 stats that you would not have if you put an orange gem in a red slot. It could be that those 5-8 stats are outweighed by having more haste, I don't know, which is why I started this thread. Most people say haste and damage are equal in dps value, if true then those additional stats count. If not true and haste is better than damage then maybe they don't. I'm willing to believe either, but no one has every satisfactorily explained or proved to me that haste is in fact better than damage. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. |
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August 31, 2008, 05:28 AM
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#36 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
Spreadsheet. Its not the number of stats, its how those stats scale and while damage/haste are very close in their value haste will eventually beat damage BUT here's the thing...I currently have 245 haste but if I change a couple of items around and stack as much damage/crit as possible the haste only comes out a few DPS ahead. The difference is very, very marginal until you start to reach (like Buzzkill) 400 haste unbuffed while maintaining over 1400+ damage unbuffed.
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight |
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September 13, 2008, 06:02 AM
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#37 (permalink) |
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Re: The Haste vs Dmg Question
I'm sitting at around 1550 damage raid buffed, maybe a bit more. With 98 haste from my gear & gems. With 30% crit (with talents and raid buffs included) With 199 hit However, leuliers spreadsheet still says +12 damage beats +10 haste, even +10 damage beats +10 haste (though not by much). I have heard also, numerous times, that at my damage & crit level +haste is better than +damage....have I configured the spreadsheet incorrectly somehow? Any suggestions as to why the spreadsheets showing me otherwise? |
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| +Dmg, balancing, Damage, dmg, Gem, Gemming, Gems, Haste, question, Raiding:, spell, Spell Damage, Spell Haste |
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