The Haste vs Crit Theorycrafting Thread

To avoid cluttering other threads with Endgame theorycrafting I'm setting aside this thread for that purpose - it should prove to be interesting reading.

The question of haste vs crit, and at which point those stats become more valuable has been discussed endlessly and while there have been conclusions drawn regarding both, they're scatted across a multitude of threads so with any luck and a modicum of friendly debate hopefully our resident theorycrafters will be able to enlighten us.

Over to you chaps

**Edit**
This thread is now the consolidation of a couple of threads discussing the same topic, please bear that in mind if there seems to be any 'jumping around' between some replies.

Similar discussion threads that might of interest:

• Haste and Crit: TheoryCraft vs Real Raid Situations
• Does haste compensate for lack of crit?
• Spell haste Vs spell Hit rating Vs Crit Rating
• Haste Rating = What %Crit = What %hit = What +Dam
• Haste
• Haste - Is it really THAT good?
• Does spell haste effect drains?
• how much haste makes a difference
• Haste and affliction

PvP related threads:

• Spell Haste vs. Spell Damage gems in PvP
• Spell haste and PvP gear
• Haste in Arena

For more Haste threads: The Warlocks Den Forums - Threads Tagged with Spell Haste

[Rok]

Ok, so I know the popular idea about crit for an 0/21/40 warlock is you should have ~20% unbuffed minimum, and that you need to get to really high spell damage levels like 1400 or so before you should start stacking spell haste (at least thats what I've read). I also know that for a raiding warlock, the very most important thing is to stack hit gear and spell damage until you reach the hit cap. However, when I plug my numbers into the spreadsheet on maxdps.com, I end up having a higher dps by stacking up haste rather than crit, and I was pretty sure that takes into accound ISB. Either way, is it still better for me to stack haste than crit at the moment, considering that there are usually 3 other destro locks with plenty of crit in my raid (so ISB uptime is never really a problem)?

Here's the link to my armory if you want to see my gear.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Also, my stats are around 17% crit, 1k +shadow damage unbuffed, and 80 haste rating (5% faster cast speed)

Thanks!

*** Information added 1 Minutes and 58 Seconds later... ***

err, about 16% crit, sorry about that

*** Information added 7 Minutes and 28 Seconds later... ***

Oh and, of course, the main reason I'm asking this is aggro management. Even though you're getting off more SB's the more haste you have, higher crit levels to me always add up to pulling aggro and I have to SS or, if its on cooldown, back off and thats a real dps killer. I figured stacking haste would help with aggro management more than stacking crit.

[Oaken]

no reading.

H A S T E

[Rok]

That's one for haste then. Exactly what I was hoping to here. =)

Keep em coming!

[Oaken]

though get spelldmg > haste > crit, but usually gear will take care of that.
Never socket crit, but pure spelldmg or spelldmg + haste and finally pure haste, where it depends on which one is better pure haste or damage+haste on the rest of your gear.

[levinho]

Frankly, most of the gear that gives haste at the progression I assume your at (t4) isn't all that well itemized. Some exceptions might be for instance the s3/4 pvp neck and the za sword and the badge offhand. However, It's so difficult to balance all of your stats around for haste until you get into a t6/sunwell progression that I would say pick up what haste you can but don't try to force stacking haste.

The best haste gear is that free haste on sunwell loot.

Until then just pick up what pieces you can and run the spreadsheet on it.

The reason haste scales better even at lower gear is because it is a static increase to dps. Based on my personal experience, stacking haste is OK but if you gimp your crit to do so ie less than around 30% raid buffed it really hurts your dps.

BTW if you are pulling aggro it is not because of your stats. There is no stack haste vs. stack crit = less aggro other than maybe less burst. If you have a problem with burst it is an issue of giving yourself a ceiling and always staying at max range so you can ride up to 130% threat before pulling off the tank. This is not a gearing problem it is a playstyle problem. So practice makes perfect and learn your tanks threat cycle.

[Theleb]

I'd go along with that - 30% raidbuffed at a minimum is what I like to shoot for.

Another point to make is that while the spreadsheet at WoW Warlock DPS Spreadsheet is fantastic for planning gear upgrades it doesn't take everything into account. The Crit vs haste debate is one area where the spreadsheet is slightly out as it overvalues Haste.

[Necronomis]

I'll quote Buzzkill of Nihilum:

"No, no and no, you shouldn't go haste before Sunwell. ZA haste items are apart from the ring utter shit and should be avoided by all cost. Only preSW items you should consider that have haste on it are nimble thought, bt trash ring, za haste ring and illidan staff. You're way better off with crit and damage setup before you hit good Sunwell items."

MaxDPS and the spreadsheet are confusing a lot of people because they value the stat very highly (as they should, haste is awesome). The PROBLEM is that pre-sunwell your gear is too crappy to support haste itemization and the drops you can get with haste also suck except for the one's Buzzkill mentioned.

[Oaken]

omg buzzkill might be a good warlock, but has proven to be a not so decent theorycrafter. crit is the last stat you should actually aim for.
speaking about 3o% spellcrit, if you have a look at my armory you´ll see that in my gear you are around 30% sboltcrit raidbuffed.
Haste scales alot better than crit does and in terms of iLvL it is even cheaper than crit.

[Theleb]

The Neck and the Sword from Zul'Jin are also highly rated....

Yep, he's got a lot of crit (around 26% unbuffed without Devastation) and a heap of damage but while I respect his accomplishments I'd have to say that haste items aren't quite as horrific as he makes them out to be - you simply had to apply a modicum of common sense to your choices.