| Instance / Raiding Guides If your DPS sucks, look in here. If you don't know what spells to cast, look in here. If you're happy as a raider, and you really wanna be better, if you're in an instance or raid, look in here. |
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Published by Canadianpimp
January 30, 2008 |
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The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Canadianpimp For This Useful Post:
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Aerion Odemn, Akasha, angelina_lock, Aquinox, beelzebuub, evinge, Gritz, lloydraphah, maiko, Midnight, otelma, payno, Rosati, Sofiae, Warpy |
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Themorrigan 70 Human Warlock Kil'Jaeden US PvP Guild: The Collective Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/0/0 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
Yeah, pretty much. |
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#2 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Powerbernie 70 Human Warlock Runetotem Euro PvE Guild: Shadow Ops Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 22/5/34 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
Quote:
Armor reduction Formula: (Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * Enemy_Level)) * 100 So to give you the damage mitigation for four different armor ratings: Mob armor 20800 (66.33%) Mob armor 20000 (65.45%) Mob armor 800 (7.05%) Mob armor 0 (0%) In other words, if you reduce armor from 800 to 0 then you increase damage on that mob by 7%. But if you reduce armor of a mob from 20800 to 20000 then you increase damage on him by 0.9%. So lets look at a raid bos.....assuming 20k armor is fair enough as even a normal lvl70 tank has 15k. You apply CoR and thus increse melee damage on him by 0.9%. Lets calculate with 5 melee dps who each do 800DpS. So by applying CoR you win: 5*800*0.009 = 36 DpS - woot ![]() I really cant see how anyone could gain something by CoR as long as the target mob armor is higher than 10k, which is always the case for all raid bosses. But pls point me to my mistake if i overlook anything?
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Powerbernie Human Warlock Das Solare Imperium - DunMorogh (Euro PvE) Last edited by Tannenbernie; January 30, 2008 at 11:31 AM.. |
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#3 (permalink) |
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Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
You're forgetting that: Sunder armor will be applied to the target being DPSed which lowers the armor. Some items will have pierce armor stats on them (most notably rogues and hunters), so with an application of recklessness + sunders + pierce armor, damage increases by a significant amount. At the most you're going to have either 4 mages doing elemental damage (curse of elements) or 4 shadow damage dealers (warlock/shadowpriest) But even if say, curse of recklessness gives a 5% damage increase on the armor, it will apply for all classes that use armor in the damage formula. In total you're going to have approximately 8 melee damage dealers in the raid. 1: your tanks/druids will be hitting 5% more damage so more aggro - win. 2: your hunters will be hitting 5% more damage = win. 3: your rogues will be hitting 5% more damage = also win. Excuse my horrible maths but 8x 5% (8 melee damage dealers) x 5% increased damage for all of them should roughly, and yes, roughly, work out to about the same as a curse of elements 10%, x 4 of that element damage dealers. please correct me if my math is too "rough" but looking it from that point of view, it works out to about the same as a curse of elements or a shadows, except it's a melee version of it. |
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dalnaresh 70 Undead Warlock Earthen Ring Euro RP Guild: TheDarkEmpire Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
lol Average raid boss has somewhere in the region of 6.2k armour (some like Void Reaver have more, up to about 10k I think). After Sunder armour etc they generally only have about 2k armour left if I recall correctly. CoR results in an approximate 6% damage increase by your melee....as well as an increase in threat generation by tanks, which means that everybody can dps harder. CoR should be up on everything except the very hard hitting bosses (Gruul after a couple of grows, morogrim, Tidalvess in Karathress fight, Al'ar phase 2 [melt armour sucks] etc) |
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Turmeric 70 Gnome Warlock Aszune Euro PvE Guild: Origin Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
I am sure that enemy mobs have 2-3 fixed armour values around the 10k mark, and without having the math that damage reduction doesn't seem accurate. Another factor in CoR is that it increases threat generation for tanks which often has an impact on total DPS, especially for some aggro sensitive fights. |
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#6 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Kiralyn 80 Human Warlock Mal'Ganis US PvP Guild: Self Titled Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0.13.58 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
Quote:
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Hell, it's about time. -Tychus Findlaw |
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#7 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Powerbernie 70 Human Warlock Runetotem Euro PvE Guild: Shadow Ops Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 22/5/34 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
I understand what you are saying and you are right that i forgot that. But it doesnt change the math as the armor is still to high for CoR to take effect. Let me present new numbers: Mob armor 20800 (66.33%) Mob armor 20000 (65.45%) Mob armor 14800 (58.39%) Mob armor 14000 (57.01%) So now we assume that sunder armor and other effects lower the Mob armor by 6000 from 20800 to 14800. On top of that we use CoR and this time we increse damage on the Mob by 1.38%. So assuming 8 melee damage users (I dont think that this is realistic on a Kara run :P) - we do 8*800*0.0138 = 88 DpS win - useless ![]() Really, to rech a damage gain of 5% or somehting around that, the MoB can only have like 6k original armor. Someone posted this to be the case for some magic-Bosses....in which case i am wrong and coR is good. But i still wouldnt gereralize it as a lot of high-armor melee bosses surely have much more than 6k, right?
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Powerbernie Human Warlock Das Solare Imperium - DunMorogh (Euro PvE) Last edited by Tannenbernie; January 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM.. |
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#8 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Zakuzo 70 Gnome Warlock Laughing Skull US PvP Guild: The General Public Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
Quote:
So it really works out like this: (stolen from EJ forums) Bosses with 6200 armor base reduction: 37% (6200 armor) sundered 5x: 25,43% (3600 armor) - damage increase for sunder: 18,36% faerie fire: 22,07% (2990 armor) - additional damage increase for fire: 4,5% CoR: 17,11% (2190 armor) - additional damage increase for CoR: 6,36% Bosses with 7700 armor base reduction: 42,17% (7700 armor) sundered 5x: 32,57% (5100 armor) - damage increase for sunder: 16,61% faerie fire: 29,84% (4490 armor) - additional damage increase for fire: 4,05% CoR: 25,85% (3690 armor) - additional damage increase for CoR: 5,69% |
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dalnaresh 70 Undead Warlock Earthen Ring Euro RP Guild: TheDarkEmpire Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding
From Elitest jerks: Now Raid Bosses have the following approximate Armor Values (Lurker has 7685 so 7700 vs 7685... not material) Serpentshrine Cavern: Hydross the Unstable: 7700 The Lurker Below: 7700 Leotheras the Blind: 7700 Fathom-Lord Karathress 6200 Morogrim Tidewalker: 7700 Lady Vashj: 6200 Tempest Keep: Void Reaver: 8800 High Astromancer Solarian: 6200 Al'ar: 7700 Kael'thas Sunstrider: 6200 Hyjal Summit: Rage Winterchill: 6200 Anetheron: 6200 Kaz'rogal: 6200 Azgalor: 6200 Archimonde: 6200 Black Temple: High Warlord Naj'entus: 7700 Supremus: 7700 Shade of Akama: 7700 Teron Gorefiend: 6200 Gurtogg Bloodboil: 7700 Reliquary of Souls: - Essence of Suffering: 0 - Essence of Desire: 7700 - Essence of Anger: 7700 Mother Shahraz: 6200 Illidari Council: - Gathios the Shatterer: 6200 Illidan Stormrage: 7700 No mob in the game has a 5 digit armour value. |
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