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The 10 Commandments of Raiding
The 10 Commandments of Raiding
Published by Canadianpimp
January 30, 2008
Last Updated
January 30, 2008
The 10 Commandments of Raiding

10. Every raiding build needs 5/5 Improved Shadowbolt and 5/5 Bane. No exceptions. The highest DPS builds is 0/21/40, only rivaled by 0/40/21 when a Succubus is free to attack. Before your gear improves, raiding as 41/0/17 is probably the best DPS build. Shadow destruction > fire destruction at a T4+ gear level because of Improved Shadowbolt, and Shadow Bolt scales better than Incinerate with spell damage because it has a higher spell coefficient.

9. Drain Life is NEVER more DPS than Shadowbolt as a filler spell. Pretty much the only time you should use it is for emergency self-healing.

8. Unstable Affliction out DPS Ruin until the point where you should NOT spec Affliction anymore for DPS.
7. Socket bonuses should almost always be ignored except when the bonus has spell damage in it that and sometimes spell hit. Blue sockets are the worst sockets for PvE. Veiled Noble Topazes are your friend until you are hit capped. Once one is hit capped without sockets (at a T6 gear level), +12 spell damage gem is the best DPS increase.

6. Immolate is always a DPS boost for Affliction and Demonology builds. The only times you should not use Immolate is with 0/21/40 with Tier 6 level gear and when you are reaching the debuff limit.

5. Curse of Recklessness is a huge raid DPS increase, just as much as Curse of Shadows and Curse of the Elements. All bosses have over 6000 armor so CoR will benefit raid DPS for any one of them. Preach to your guild to use it on bosses that don't hit extremely hard.

4. One of the best ways to increase your DPS is by Life Tapping intelligently. The optimal time to Life Tap/Dark Pact is when you are moving in a fight or when you do not have to refresh DoTs.

3. Frozen Shadoweave and Spellstrike can last you to Tier 6 instances. They're that good. The only major upgrades that you can pick up along the way is the Hood of Hexing from ZA, Tier 5 Shoulders off of Void Reaver, Vestments of the Sea-Witch of Lady Vashj, and Boots of Blasting.

2. Stamina and Intellect are NOT needed on PvE items. They are a waste of item budget points, and you should almost always prefer items with DPS stats over more "balanced" items. I know that our health essentially becomes our mana, but that doesn't matter because we are healed when we Life Tap. Leave the stamina to PvP. Warlocks already have naturally high health.

1. Spell hit is a very good DPS stat, but don't sacrifice too much to get hit capped.. It is NOT worth giving up a lot of spell damage though. At the very most, 1 spell hit will be worth 125% of 1 spell damage. The reason why spell hit is more important than spell crit and haste is not because we are losing tons of damage with spells missing, but because the conversion ratio is much better than spell haste and spell crit. When Affliction, spell damage gives more DPS than spell hit, but you will want to slowly start building up your spell hit so you can drop points in Suppression and eventually respec Destruction.
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Old January 30, 2008, 08:20 AM   #1 (permalink)

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Themorrigan
70 Human Warlock
Kil'Jaeden US PvP
Guild: The Collective
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/0/0
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

Yeah, pretty much.
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:27 AM   #2 (permalink)

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Powerbernie
70 Human Warlock
Runetotem Euro PvE
Guild: Shadow Ops
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 22/5/34
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianpimp View Post
5. Curse of Recklessness is a huge raid DPS increase, just as much as Curse of Shadows and Curse of the Elements. Preach to your guild to use it on bosses that don't hit extremely hard.
Thats something which i heard befor but i completely disagree. Usually people advertize this when they dont understand that the relation between armor and damage mitigation is not linear. But please feel free to proove me wrong here, just take a look at my simple math:

Armor reduction Formula:
(Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * Enemy_Level)) * 100

So to give you the damage mitigation for four different armor ratings:
Mob armor 20800 (66.33%)
Mob armor 20000 (65.45%)
Mob armor 800 (7.05%)
Mob armor 0 (0%)

In other words, if you reduce armor from 800 to 0 then you increase damage on that mob by 7%. But if you reduce armor of a mob from 20800 to 20000 then you increase damage on him by 0.9%.

So lets look at a raid bos.....assuming 20k armor is fair enough as even a normal lvl70 tank has 15k. You apply CoR and thus increse melee damage on him by 0.9%. Lets calculate with 5 melee dps who each do 800DpS.

So by applying CoR you win: 5*800*0.009 = 36 DpS - woot

I really cant see how anyone could gain something by CoR as long as the target mob armor is higher than 10k, which is always the case for all raid bosses. But pls point me to my mistake if i overlook anything?
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Human Warlock
Das Solare Imperium - DunMorogh (Euro PvE)

Last edited by Tannenbernie; January 30, 2008 at 11:31 AM..
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:47 AM   #3 (permalink)

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Solarus
70 Human Warlock
Zenedar Euro PvP
Talent Spec: 6/44/11
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

You're forgetting that:

Sunder armor will be applied to the target being DPSed which lowers the armor.

Some items will have pierce armor stats on them (most notably rogues and hunters), so with an application of recklessness + sunders + pierce armor, damage increases by a significant amount.

At the most you're going to have either 4 mages doing elemental damage (curse of elements) or 4 shadow damage dealers (warlock/shadowpriest)

But even if say, curse of recklessness gives a 5% damage increase on the armor, it will apply for all classes that use armor in the damage formula. In total you're going to have approximately 8 melee damage dealers in the raid.

1: your tanks/druids will be hitting 5% more damage so more aggro - win.

2: your hunters will be hitting 5% more damage = win.

3: your rogues will be hitting 5% more damage = also win.

Excuse my horrible maths but

8x 5% (8 melee damage dealers) x 5% increased damage for all of them

should roughly, and yes, roughly, work out to about the same as a curse of elements 10%, x 4 of that element damage dealers.

please correct me if my math is too "rough" but looking it from that point of view, it works out to about the same as a curse of elements or a shadows, except it's a melee version of it.
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:47 AM   #4 (permalink)

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Dalnaresh
70 Undead Warlock
Earthen Ring Euro RP Guild: TheDarkEmpire
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

lol

Average raid boss has somewhere in the region of 6.2k armour (some like Void Reaver have more, up to about 10k I think). After Sunder armour etc they generally only have about 2k armour left if I recall correctly.

CoR results in an approximate 6% damage increase by your melee....as well as an increase in threat generation by tanks, which means that everybody can dps harder.

CoR should be up on everything except the very hard hitting bosses (Gruul after a couple of grows, morogrim, Tidalvess in Karathress fight, Al'ar phase 2 [melt armour sucks] etc)
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:51 AM   #5 (permalink)

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Turmeric
70 Gnome Warlock
Aszune Euro PvE
Guild: Origin
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

I am sure that enemy mobs have 2-3 fixed armour values around the 10k mark, and without having the math that damage reduction doesn't seem accurate. Another factor in CoR is that it increases threat generation for tanks which often has an impact on total DPS, especially for some aggro sensitive fights.
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:53 AM   #6 (permalink)

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Kiralyn
80 Human Warlock
Mal'Ganis US PvP
Guild: Self Titled
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0.13.58
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianpimp View Post
5. Curse of Recklessness is a huge raid DPS increase, just as much as Curse of Shadows and Curse of the Elements. Preach to your guild to use it on bosses that don't hit extremely hard.
Imp. Demo Shout removes the AP bonus that recklessness provides, so with a properly specced warrior you can always use it. Thats said, depending on your raid makeup and the spec of your mages, it may be worthwhile to give CoR a higher priority than CoE.
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Old January 30, 2008, 11:57 AM   #7 (permalink)

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Powerbernie
70 Human Warlock
Runetotem Euro PvE
Guild: Shadow Ops
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 22/5/34
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

I understand what you are saying and you are right that i forgot that. But it doesnt change the math as the armor is still to high for CoR to take effect.

Let me present new numbers:
Mob armor 20800 (66.33%)
Mob armor 20000 (65.45%)
Mob armor 14800 (58.39%)
Mob armor 14000 (57.01%)

So now we assume that sunder armor and other effects lower the Mob armor by 6000 from 20800 to 14800. On top of that we use CoR and this time we increse damage on the Mob by 1.38%.

So assuming 8 melee damage users (I dont think that this is realistic on a Kara run :P) - we do 8*800*0.0138 = 88 DpS win - useless

Really, to rech a damage gain of 5% or somehting around that, the MoB can only have like 6k original armor. Someone posted this to be the case for some magic-Bosses....in which case i am wrong and coR is good. But i still wouldnt gereralize it as a lot of high-armor melee bosses surely have much more than 6k, right?
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Powerbernie
Human Warlock
Das Solare Imperium - DunMorogh (Euro PvE)

Last edited by Tannenbernie; January 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM..
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Old January 30, 2008, 12:02 PM   #8 (permalink)

Character Info
Zakuzo
70 Gnome Warlock
Laughing Skull US PvP
Guild: The General Public
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tannenbernie View Post

So lets look at a raid bos.....assuming 20k armor is fair enough as even a normal lvl70 tank has 15k. You apply CoR and thus increse melee damage on him by 0.9%. Lets calculate with 5 melee dps who each do 800DpS.

So by applying CoR you win: 5*800*0.009 = 36 DpS - woot

I really cant see how anyone could gain something by CoR as long as the target mob armor is higher than 10k, which is always the case for all raid bosses. But pls point me to my mistake if i overlook anything?
Except most bosses either have 6200 or 7700 armor level, and CoR stacks with other armor reducing effects like Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire.

So it really works out like this: (stolen from EJ forums)
Bosses with 6200 armor
base reduction: 37% (6200 armor)
sundered 5x: 25,43% (3600 armor) - damage increase for sunder: 18,36%
faerie fire: 22,07% (2990 armor) - additional damage increase for fire: 4,5%
CoR: 17,11% (2190 armor) - additional damage increase for CoR: 6,36%


Bosses with 7700 armor

base reduction: 42,17% (7700 armor)
sundered 5x: 32,57% (5100 armor) - damage increase for sunder: 16,61%
faerie fire: 29,84% (4490 armor) - additional damage increase for fire: 4,05%
CoR: 25,85% (3690 armor) - additional damage increase for CoR: 5,69%
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Old January 30, 2008, 12:04 PM   #9 (permalink)

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Dalnaresh
70 Undead Warlock
Earthen Ring Euro RP Guild: TheDarkEmpire
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40
Re: The 10 Common Misconceptions of Raiding

From Elitest jerks:

Now Raid Bosses have the following approximate Armor Values (Lurker has 7685 so 7700 vs 7685... not material)
Serpentshrine Cavern:
Hydross the Unstable: 7700
The Lurker Below: 7700
Leotheras the Blind: 7700
Fathom-Lord Karathress 6200
Morogrim Tidewalker: 7700
Lady Vashj: 6200

Tempest Keep:
Void Reaver: 8800
High Astromancer Solarian: 6200
Al'ar: 7700
Kael'thas Sunstrider: 6200

Hyjal Summit:
Rage Winterchill: 6200
Anetheron: 6200
Kaz'rogal: 6200
Azgalor: 6200
Archimonde: 6200

Black Temple:
High Warlord Naj'entus: 7700
Supremus: 7700
Shade of Akama: 7700
Teron Gorefiend: 6200
Gurtogg Bloodboil: 7700
Reliquary of Souls:
- Essence of Suffering: 0
- Essence of Desire: 7700
- Essence of Anger: 7700
Mother Shahraz: 6200
Illidari Council:
- Gathios the Shatterer: 6200
Illidan Stormrage: 7700

No mob in the game has a 5 digit armour value.
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