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November 05, 2008, 04:10 PM
Fallenman	WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide The thread here is about Affliction Raiding. This will answer very common questions such as these: Should I use immolate? Should I drop any DoTs from my rotation? What is the rotation? My DPS is really bad, what am I doing wrong? How can I get better at affliction? This will be broken up into 2 posts. The first, below, dealing with DPCTs and whether or not you should cast all of your DoTs. I'll start by clarifying what DoTs should be used. The answer simply... Click here to read the entire guide Last edited by Fallenman; December 17, 2008 at 12:44 PM..

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November 26, 2008, 07:07 AM

#42 (permalink)

Infekted

Character Info
Infekted
80 Gnome Warlock
aerie peak Euro PvE
Guild: Celestial

Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommTomm

Couple questions about the talent build you posted.

I noticed that you don't have either of the +hit talents selected. Talented hit cap of 368 is pretty high, much less getting to 446 which you will need. Am I just off on how hard it’s going to be for you to close that gap? I would think those are talent points well spent.

Your build does not include any of the threat reduction talents. I know that tank threat mechanics have gotten a good boost, but has it been enough in a raiding environment to allow us to totally forego any threat reduction talents?

With out any of the range increasing talents either, how has your experience been raiding? I have always felt that these are the most underestimated boosts that we can get. Range has a survivability and +damage factor that cannot be theory crafted. So many fights require lots of movements that when I've raided without them, I've found myself dying more and having lower overall dps. I would think that this is especially true when you consider the importance of keeping haunt and shadows embrace up. Those 6 extra yards can mean the difference between getting those abilities refreshed and having them fall off and the resultant loss of dps.

And finally, you have 3 points in Eradication. I've seen some posts on EJ suggesting that the 2nd and 3rd point have such low marginal benefit that they should be used for something else. What were your thoughts on using the full 3 points?

Thanks for any info you may have.

Some good points here... +hit gives the strongest dps increase per percent than any other stat. Untill cap of course.

I have noticed in instances, that even with the supposedly buffed aggro of tanks that I can quite easily start to over take the tanks aggro. This is even more dangerous as an aff lock as you have only one way to stop it. And that is to shatter, which has an insanely long cool down.
Sure you can wait even longer to start dps'ing, but that in turn leads to a lot less damage done overall. In short, the less aggro you generate, the harder you can push your damage, and the more damage you do.

The extra range is also a very good point. Sure its irrelevent when stood there pounding a training dummy, but can be very significant on mobile boss fights. Supremus and Archimonde being good examples.

I have also read that the full 3 points in eradication aren't worth it. However I am starting to think I would like to try out the full 3, as I am starting to really like this proc. I see it quite often with a %4 chance per corruption tick, so with %10 I should be seeing it a lot. Basically on a normal rotation, I can usually fit in 2 SB fillers, then reapply haunt. Or one SB filler, lifetap then haunt. However when eradication is up, I can fit in two SB fillers, lifetap and still get haunt up in time.

November 26, 2008, 08:05 AM	#43 (permalink)
Halibel Character Info Halibel 80 Human Warlock Azjol Nerub Euro PvE Guild: Brutal Deluxe	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide Great.

November 26, 2008, 08:50 AM	#44 (permalink)
Seventh Character Info Seventh 80 Human Warlock Dreanor Euro PvE Guild: Passion	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide Thanks for the guide. Very informative and helpful. I do have some questions / comments about your build though. I notice you have 1 point in Improved Felhunter but don't use Dark Pact. Do you feel that with all the raid buffs your felhunter would run out of mana without the point in Imp Felhunter? I don't really seem to be experiencing that problem you see. Also, I'm not quite sure if the Amplify Curse it worth it's point as it only works on curses. Assuming you can use Curse of Agony that means you win 0.5 seconds for every Curse of Agony. If you're on CoE duty it's definately not worth it (though it could be argued that CoE should be left to a destro lock or not used at all because there is a boomkin in the raid). Last edited by Seventh; November 26, 2008 at 09:07 AM..

November 26, 2008, 12:27 PM

#45 (permalink)

Fallenman

Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommTomm

The build I used was not intended to necessarily be the build one should use right now.

At the moment I do have the hit talents. My build currently is this:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Quote:

Your build does not include any of the threat reduction talents. I know that tank threat mechanics have gotten a good boost, but has it been enough in a raiding environment to allow us to totally forego any threat reduction talents?

threat will become an issue later on. at that point fortunately you might also have more hit and not need the talents as much, so you can swap points.

Quote:

With out any of the range increasing talents either, how has your experience been raiding? I have always felt that these are the most underestimated boosts that we can get. Range has a survivability and +damage factor that cannot be theory crafted. So many fights require lots of movements that when I've raided without them, I've found myself dying more and having lower overall dps. I would think that this is especially true when you consider the importance of keeping haunt and shadows embrace up. Those 6 extra yards can mean the difference between getting those abilities refreshed and having them fall off and the resultant loss of dps.

i have cleared all current content in Wrath of the Lich King and have had ZERO problems with range. what you would lose just to get both range talents would be far greater a dps loss than any slight dps loss you might have on say malygos as he flies away, and you can't refresh a dot cuz of that extra 6 yards. (though if you're good, you refreshed them right before he flies away ;) )

Quote:

And finally, you have 3 points in Eradication. I've seen some posts on EJ suggesting that the 2nd and 3rd point have such low marginal benefit that they should be used for something else. What were your thoughts on using the full 3 points?

Thanks for any info you may have.

I only go 1 point into eradication.

*** Information added 1 Minutes and 58 Seconds later... ***

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seventh

Thanks for the guide. Very informative and helpful.

I do have some questions / comments about your build though.
I notice you have 1 point in Improved Felhunter but don't use Dark Pact. Do you feel that with all the raid buffs your felhunter would run out of mana without the point in Imp Felhunter? I don't really seem to be experiencing that problem you see.
Also, I'm not quite sure if the Amplify Curse it worth it's point as it only works on curses. Assuming you can use Curse of Agony that means you win 0.5 seconds for every Curse of Agony. If you're on CoE duty it's definately not worth it (though it could be argued that CoE should be left to a destro lock or not used at all because there is a boomkin in the raid).

you dont need any points in imp felhunter anymore to allow him to not go OOM.

I would argue that MOST afflocks will have either an unholy DK or a boomkin in the raid. which means you won't be casting CoE. but in the offchance you never have either, then amp curse wouldn't be necessary.

December 02, 2008, 08:53 AM	#46 (permalink)
tongara Character Info tongara 80 Orc Warlock bleeding hallow US PvP	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide thxs for the great post.so what is the rotation for trash mobs

December 02, 2008, 10:38 AM	#47 (permalink)
wrwarwick Character Info Dentagil 80 Orc Warlock Gorefiend US PvP Guild: Omen Talent Spec: 3/13/55	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide I have a few questions on afflic PvE - either I am doing something wrong or my gear is just really, really bad. When running heroics and Nax I stuggle to keep my dps above 1000, especially on the trash mobs. I was even kicked from the raid on patchwerk because my dps wasnt high enough. I am pretty sure it is related to my gear. I have all blue and green drops now from quests and normal instance drops. Can anyone tell me if it is my gear or maybe I am not casting right? I have thought about going Demo/Destro but I really like afflic and want it to work for me.

December 02, 2008, 03:10 PM

#48 (permalink)

Lylie

Character Info
Lylie
70 Human Warlock
Demon Soul US PvP
Guild: Paradigm
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40

Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrwarwick

I have a few questions on afflic PvE - either I am doing something wrong or my gear is just really, really bad. When running heroics and Nax I stuggle to keep my dps above 1000, especially on the trash mobs. I was even kicked from the raid on patchwerk because my dps wasnt high enough.

I am pretty sure it is related to my gear. I have all blue and green drops now from quests and normal instance drops. Can anyone tell me if it is my gear or maybe I am not casting right? I have thought about going Demo/Destro but I really like afflic and want it to work for me.

Even in green/blue gear you should be able to keep your dps close to 2k minimum. I'm still running around in my T6 which is really the equivalent of those items (and it makes me cry). Regardless of this the highest I pull with absolutely no Wrath gear is 2700. I think I got a lucky string of crits but yeah thats that. I think this is great post, but at the same time I tend to disagree with some of the statements made. Affliction is highly defined by playstyle, and ability to multitask. If you spend too much time keeping up dots, you'll never break 1000dps, sad but true reality. In fact, in raiding, I've all but cut out anything but Curse of Agony, UA, and Corruption. More shadowbolts more DPS blah blah blah. I'm holding my damage output in subpar gear up there with others who are a little more geared then I am. I have yet to go against our geared destro lock so can't compare there.

The rotation I use (contrary to this, though I understand the logic behind it) is Curse, UA, Haunt, Corruption, SBx?? refresh based on timers. This rotation keeps haunt and UA timers fairly close together and I find it much more manageable.

If you're not breaking 1000dps, in conclusion, more shadowbolts, dots are important to affliction but they are still not our primary DPS, and probably won't ever be.

December 02, 2008, 06:01 PM

#49 (permalink)

Fallenman

Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongara

thxs for the great post.so what is the rotation for trash mobs

Just like haunt, corruption or immolate, and SB spam basically.

*** Information added 2 Minutes and 20 Seconds later... ***

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lylie

The rotation I use (contrary to this, though I understand the logic behind it) is Curse, UA, Haunt, Corruption, SBx?? refresh based on timers. This rotation keeps haunt and UA timers fairly close together and I find it much more manageable.

If you're not breaking 1000dps, in conclusion, more shadowbolts, dots are important to affliction but they are still not our primary DPS, and probably won't ever be.

I have to take issue with this, mainly in that it's ok to drop dots as you get used to the rotation. But you will never achieve the kind of dps you should without all your dots, so you should work up to adding them in.

and to tell someone spec'd affliction to jsut shadowbolt spam is really bad advice, im sorry. and, dots ARE affliction's primary dps. it makes up for 65-70% of our dps.

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November 25, 2008, 02:45 PM	#40 (permalink)
TommTomm Character Info Deaddoghead 80 Undead Warlock Blackhand US PvE Talent Spec: 54/0/17	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide Couple questions about the talent build you posted. I noticed that you don't have either of the +hit talents selected. Talented hit cap of 368 is pretty high, much less getting to 446 which you will need. Am I just off on how hard it’s going to be for you to close that gap? I would think those are talent points well spent. Your build does not include any of the threat reduction talents. I know that tank threat mechanics have gotten a good boost, but has it been enough in a raiding environment to allow us to totally forego any threat reduction talents? With out any of the range increasing talents either, how has your experience been raiding? I have always felt that these are the most underestimated boosts that we can get. Range has a survivability and +damage factor that cannot be theory crafted. So many fights require lots of movements that when I've raided without them, I've found myself dying more and having lower overall dps. I would think that this is especially true when you consider the importance of keeping haunt and shadows embrace up. Those 6 extra yards can mean the difference between getting those abilities refreshed and having them fall off and the resultant loss of dps. And finally, you have 3 points in Eradication. I've seen some posts on EJ suggesting that the 2nd and 3rd point have such low marginal benefit that they should be used for something else. What were your thoughts on using the full 3 points? Thanks for any info you may have. Last edited by TommTomm; November 25, 2008 at 02:55 PM..

November 26, 2008, 06:04 AM	#41 (permalink)
benutz	Re: WOTLK affliction raiding, how-to guide Could Haunt be included in the dpct overview?