The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions
Member Login
The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions
| PvP Guides Warriors, and Druids, and Rogues, Oh my! Want to succeed in Battlegrounds? Understand Arenas better? If it involves pitting one player against another, you'll find it in here. |
 |
October 07, 2008, 01:21 PM
|
|
|
|
Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
For those of you interested in destro PvP after the big 3.0 patch next week. Try the following specs for your 70s. Generic Destro build (0/14/47) Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Gains Backdraft, Soul Link, and it is very much the spiritual successor to the popular 7/7/37, 7/7/47 build. With corruption now instant, this will play similarly to the old destro...
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
|
|
|
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Redmage For This Useful Post:
|
| Recommended Guide |
|
|
December 01, 2008, 08:40 PM
|
#100 (permalink) |
|
|
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
I think Lordofsounds' build is the logical progression of the 0/14/47 of 3.0.2. The key to put more points in destro is to get Chaos Bolt, so where those 3 filler points are placed are not terribly important, I think both fire and brimstone, soul leech can have their own merits, though I think fire and brimstone is probably the better choice. As for demo side, the key is to get Master Summoner and Fel domination. After that, I think demonic aegis, improved healthstone won't change the build too much.
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
|
|
|
|
December 02, 2008, 02:39 AM
|
#101 (permalink) | ||
|
Character Info
Soner 80 Human Warlock Aszune Euro PvE |
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
Quote:
Quote:
talents. After becoming 73, the rest seems like filler to me. I think our 51 point spell should be a little bit more...
__________________
Many a good man has been put into the graveyard by a lock! |
||
|
|
|
| Recommended Guide |
|
|
|
December 02, 2008, 10:59 AM
|
#102 (permalink) |
|
|
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
Have been gearing up my Prot Paladin at 80. but I've slowly begun to level up my Lock. I ran 0/14/47 at 70 and I think I'll run 0/20/51 at 80, but slightly different than the Build Lordofsounds posted. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Imp. Searing Pain over Soul Leech or Fire & Brimstone Cataclysm over Molten Core 3/3 Demonic Aegis over Imp Health Funnel I'm mainly interested in doing 2s and I think I'll be running with a mutilate Rogue again. As Sap, Seduce, Gouge and Blind break on damage, I usually don't put up shadow dots as there is no way to get rid of them if we need to bandage/exit combat/switch targets. So no points in Molten Core for me. Imp. Searing Pain got my filler points, Fire & Brimstone seems like more of a PvE talent IMO. When I put immolate up, I usually conflag within the next 1-2 casts. The haste from backdraft is just too good to not have up as much as possible. Not to mention the stun proccing. No Imp. Health funnel for me. I'm not going to be healing my pet being in a double DPS team. In my eyes if they're attacking my pet they aren't attacking either me or my partner and my pet has served its purpose. And now that I have fel dom I can re-summon a new one after the healer has blown its nature's swiftness and its time to kill  Just my 2 cents from a double DPS view. |
|
|
|
|
December 03, 2008, 07:21 AM
|
#103 (permalink) |
|
Character Info
Soner 80 Human Warlock Aszune Euro PvE |
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
Every built seem to have a logical approach  I also had hard time deciding whether to take F&B or imp. SP. Before level 75, I dreamed about casting S.Flame and Immo, then conflagrate twice, first for SFlame and the second one was through the end of Immo for additional crit benefit. Alas, I have found out that conflagrate always consume immo first :( So I may drop F&B for another talent. I will try my chance with corr. though. If I decide not to use, it will probably be for breaking seduction. But I will definitely use imp. health funnel. Loosing succu means loosing an instant Cc and Soul Link. This is too much. She may still die, but she has more chances to survive and keep on doing her main purpose: Cc.
__________________
Many a good man has been put into the graveyard by a lock! |
|
|
|
|
December 03, 2008, 10:35 AM
|
#104 (permalink) |
|
Character Info
Illeandrys 80 Blood Elf Warlock Frostmourne Oceania PvP Guild: Loot the Core Hound Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
i agree with lordofsounds that losing a demon in the middle of a fight is a big blow, not just for the cc/interrupt from succy or felhunter, but also because it means losing your damage mitigation. then again, if you're dominating with double dps or have fel domination then that isn't so much of a problem. it'd be very nice to see fel dom get a shorter cooldown though. i don't know about imp searing pain though, i personally almost never use it in pvp except when shadowburn is on cooldown, and i tend to not shadowburn until my target is low on health anyway. i think it might be better to put those points back into molten core, since you very well might end up using shadow dots on your designated target. then again, dropping a shadow dot might just be a waste of a gcd if you're running with a mut rogue. it depends a lot on your comp/strat, i guess. don't forget that molten core can proc off of shadowfury and shadowburn, though. either way, it's almost definitely the better choice for 5s or even 3s in my opinion, and definitely for bgs. |
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2008, 06:39 PM
|
#105 (permalink) | |
|
|
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
Quote:
I'm actually looking at the crit meta if I play destruction. Chaotic Skyflare Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft 3% increased critical damage I think the math works like this.. 1.5 x 1.03(meta) = 154.5 54.5 x 2(ruin)= 109 so crits hit for 209% and then I'm not sure how the searing pain glyph would be added. So the meta gives you 9% more damage on criticals. (also need some confirmation on my math) |
|
|
|
|
|
December 14, 2008, 08:26 PM
|
#106 (permalink) |
|
Character Info
BIgguss 85 Gnome Warlock Ner'zhul US PvP Talent Tree: Demonology |
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
My (stream of consciousness) thoughts on destro pvp: Succubus all the way. Jhorora (my invisible vixen) is the anti-rogue (& then some). And besides, how cool is it to have an invisible pet with those kinds of capabilities???? As Searing Pain glyph exists I only cast Incinerate or SB if Backlash procs, accordingly I did not allocate points to Shadow and Flame. I only recently trained Chaos Bolt, I like to open with it if possible, other wise I go in close real fast, Curse (Elements), and run away. I'd cast Corruption too if I didn't think there's any chance I"ll use Seduction. If I get a crit in the initial salvo which follows Seduction, they'll be near dead. Seduction -> Curse of Elements -> Chaos Bolt -> Immolate -> Searing Pain -> Conflagrate -> Seduction -> Soul Fire -> Immolate -> Searing Pain ->... At this point the spell selection will most likely depend on how they are responding to the attack. I find people tend to freak out. But, that second Searing Pain can be followed with Shadowfury, Deathcoil, Shadowburn, another Searing Pain...you get the idea. As soon as Chaos Bolt is back up it will immediately precede or follow Conflagration #2. Mind you it takes less than 5 seconds to get to that second Seduction. Assuming they haven't popped any invulnerability abilities or are in demon or animal form, this approach really brings the pain. Note I didn't include Deathcoil, Shadowburn, or Shadowfury. These are to be used as the situation dictates. The wonderfully great thing about Destro is the flexibility and defensive potential. If you can't seduce you can probably make great use of Shadowfury + Fear (or Howl if facing multiple opponents or a Shaman with his dogs). If you are up against a mage you can instantly summon a Felhunter. In my experience, at least, things don't go well against a mage without the Felhunter. They can get out of Seduction too easily. Here's the Succy & CB build at 80: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Note it allows you to quickly adjust to a different situation in case you need another pet in a hurry. I'm not certain if Chaos Bolt was worth the points yet. I do think they need to beef it up a bit considering it's a 51 point talent and, in my opinion, Shadow and Flame & Fire and Brimstone are pretty lackluster. I guess this is where I'd go if I didn't have Chaos Bolt: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft This may be better for Seduction-heavy arena matches or something. I don't think I'd trade Chaos Bolt for Mana Feed, at this time. Oh ya for all of the above builds I would have the second point of Suppression in Molten Core or Aftermath. I was too lazy to redo tree just to change that one point. I've spec'd aff and demo for a few minutes, but I always go back to Destro within 24 hours or less. I felt invincible as heavy aff but it bored me. Last edited by Uzern; December 14, 2008 at 10:25 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
December 14, 2008, 09:17 PM
|
#107 (permalink) |
|
|
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
The key evolutionary build to 0/14/47 is 0/20/51, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Now we will all have slightly different preferences to talents such as Fire & Brimstone, Improved Searing Pain, Cataclysm, Molten Core, Soul Leech, Improved Healthstone, choosing one over the other is unlikely to make a huge impact. The real choices are deciding whether to go for 1) Improved Succubus, or 2) Chaos Bolt. A lot of you may know how much I love improved succubus. With the changes to improved health funnel and avoidance, she is now decently sturdy. My view on Chaos Bolt is still pretty undecided at the moment. Despite it being pretty lacklustre, I will mostly likely still pick it because it is still a great nuke with a decently short cast time and deals a lot of damage. I am especially delighted for the recent Backdraft changes announced, "Backdraft now also reduces the global cooldown of your next three Destruction spells by 10/20/30%." Improved Health funnel is a must for me, I can understand antiy4ho0's point of view with 2 dps. However, like Lordofsounds and jon, I think the 2 points will just offer that much more flexibility, ie. if i really want to save my pet, I actually have a choice. Compared to the straight off numeric increase of demonic aegis or improved healthstone, saving a pet can be game changing. And like Edrac, I will be using Chaotic skyflare diamond as well. The way ruin works make this a tremendous counter to resilience. Searing Pain is a very personal choice. I only use it to finish off as quickly as possible, but some people use it as their main nuke. If you use it a lot, then the glyph and the talent is definitely worth upgrading to. As to Uzern, you must go and train Shadowflame! I know a lot of people have been complaining that it sucks on the official forums. But this spell is huge for a destro lock. 1) It is an extra instant to add to our already impressive arrays of instant spells. 2) It allows you to conflagrate off it, so you can do Shadowflame-->Conflagrate on the run, which is good damage AND you get your backdraft proc 3) It has a dot component to keep rogues from vanishing without CLOS. 4) It is a cone AOE that can destealth. 5) Shadowflame does better damage than immolate 6) It does not require any talent points, I think it can also proc molten core Now the downside is its short range and not very intuitive AOE area. But given that it does not require talent points, it is a no brainer. Just think of it as another instant, and that alone is worth the price. Shadow and Flame is pretty important in my opinion. It makes our hard hiting nukes hit even harder. It is not as crucial as say shadowfury or emberstorm, but it is certainly much better than fire and brimstone. Lastly, although we have been using the succubus and liking it, I would like to throw out another idea, the IMP PvP build. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Now this is under the premise that even with all the improvements to the survivability of the succubus, she is still going to be gibbed. As such, a phase shifted imp will be your best soul link companion because he cannot be targeted. When the time is right, he can be unleashed to deliver hard hiting firebolts which can give you +20% crit chance boost. Now of course, against the 15% spell chance crit reduction from resilience, he might never crit at all to activate the talent, so I will have to test it out to see. The loss of succy's seduction will also be a huge downside. If I don't want to imp to attack at all, I can just use Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. Anyways, just throwing this out to see what you think I have personally been leveling with a heavy demo build lately, nothing beats it for solo leveling, finishing all my group quest alone saves me a lot of time waiting for friends or trying to make a group. Obviously, I will be returning to my destro roots quickly as I approach 80........
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
|
|
|
|
December 14, 2008, 10:07 PM
|
#108 (permalink) |
|
Character Info
BIgguss 85 Gnome Warlock Ner'zhul US PvP Talent Tree: Demonology |
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
DOH! When I said "...I did not train Shadow Flame" in my previous post (which I've since redacted) I was not referring to the spell we got at level 75, I meant the talent Shadow and Flame! My bad!! What I was intending to relay was that because I use the glyph with +20% crit to Searing Pain that I think I'm better served having 5 points in Soul Leech + Imp Soul Leech instead of in Shadow and Flame. I only use SB or Incinerate when Backlash procs. Also, Soul Leech + Imp Soul Leech procs not only for SB, Incinerate, and Chaos Bolt (the spells improved by Shadow and Flame) but also for Soul Fire, Shadowburn, Searing Pain, and Conflagrate. It really adds up. It's 30% of damage back as health for most of the spells I cast. It's also 2% mana back for nearly a third of all of the destro spells we cast. It's procing for about 1k on big Chaos Bolts, Soul Fires. As for Shadowflame (surely they could of come up with a more distinctive name): I haven't used it much in pvp, if someone jumps me at close quarters I am going to want to Seduce or Shadowfury immediately and follow that with running away and getting ready to nuke or fear them. Meaning that I wouldn't use it right off if a Deathknight is in my face. I will want the Seduction to stick while I run away. Point being it's not very compatible with using Seduction in order to put distance between yourself and your next victim. I bet it will serve us best towards the latter end of the fight. Also, I think the one point in Affliction is worth it for its effect on fear/curse/corruption. AS for the imp: can't comment yet, haven't tried it. I look forward to it. Probably will after I get 80. Edit: Whoa!!! Didn't know Shadowflame can set up a Conflagrate. That is big. Means it can come in handy WHENEVER we are in close quarters. Last edited by Uzern; December 14, 2008 at 10:30 PM.. |
|
|
|
|
December 15, 2008, 12:41 AM
|
#109 (permalink) |
|
|
Re: Redmage's 3.0.2 Destro PvP suggestions
With the Backdraft changes and the glyph, searing pain is looking increasingly attractive. The key thing is that it fits your play style. I have tried to like Soul Leech for the longest of time, but my conclusion was that Soul Leech was healing me on average for 400health per arena match pre Wrath of the Lich King. And if you factor in the fact that a lot of those are overheals, or when i can freely nuke, the actual "Right moment, clutch heals" are few and far between. Again, now that it can proc off Chaos Bolt, and Soul Fire is off Cooldown, this can improve. I will mostly likely re-evaluate it again. At the end, it is a playstyle issue. I usually turn on recount and check out which spells actually did most of my damage. In most matches for me, it is incinerate, and that's why shadow and flame makes most sense for me. It is why I have abandoned Soul Leech previously. I would very much love to level with destruction, but destro does not allow you to solo group quests...
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
|
|
|
|
| Bookmarks |
| Tags |
| 302, Destro, PvP, redmage, suggestions |
| Guide Tools | |
|
|
