Soul Fire vs SB

ArcaneLust · February 21, 2007, 03:24 PM

I've seen many people on the forums talk about burst damage combos. Some people choose to use SB and other people chose to use Soul Fire. Is the main difference that SF is only good if your a destro lock due to bane? Is there any reason that i should open with SB after a seduce instead of a SF? Also, i don't see ShadowFury in many people's list of tactics? What about huge burst damage after a seduce followed by a ShadowFury then Fear combo when the melee character gets too close. Fear is 2 seconds and ShadowFury is a 2 second stun.

Chinkmachine · February 21, 2007, 03:31 PM

well first off unless your destructo you wont get shadowfury. sf vs shadowbolt generally comes down to how much +fire gear you have versus how much + damage gear you have, and if you wanna use a shard or not.

as a destructo lock, my normal duel tactic that i attempt to follow is this: succy seduce, curse of elements, soulfire, immolate, conflag, seduce, shadowbolt, immolate, corruption(instant), curse of agony, conflag, shadowfury, fear, shadowburn.

of course this is the plan, and it doesnt always work out as planned, and most of the time they dont have enough hp to survive up to the shadowburn, but generally its just personal preference to start with sb or sf.

Duckie · February 23, 2007, 03:32 AM

SF is nice I agree, but using shard abilities have some downsides imo.
if you are pvp-ing for example, you make a healthstone, open the fight with soulfire, shadowburn, SF and SB or incenerate and the enemy dies about instant. you use 3 shards and maybe gain one... If you make your fights that shard dependant you might get into trouble soon.

Personaly I never use soulfire (very rarely) I rather use faster casting abilities and dot the target up while running.

Chinkmachine uses 3 shards in the fight he describes.
Looking at the fight I have the following question to chink : Don't you think that Curse of Agony in a fight brings more damage then CoE even when using a lot of fire abilities?

CoE = 10% extra damage
Soulfire : 200 extra damage
immolage : 200 extra damage
incenerate : 100 extra damage
conflagrate : 150 extra damage

makes 650 extra damage from CoE, with some crits this might be about 1000 damage, while Curse of Agony gives over 2000 damage.

I miss the logic in this. Seduce I personaly only use to give me time to dot the target up and fear him at the point the dots start ticking. After that I start using direct damage abilities.
If you look at burst damage in the way of crits I would consider your way, if you just look at the highest damage per second it's not the most efficient way imo

beaker22683 · February 23, 2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckie

Don't you think that Curse of Agony in a fight brings more damage then CoE even when using a lot of fire abilities?

CoE = 10% extra damage
Soulfire : 200 extra damage
immolage : 200 extra damage
incenerate : 100 extra damage
conflagrate : 150 extra damage

makes 650 extra damage from CoE, with some crits this might be about 1000 damage, while Curse of Agony gives over 2000 damage.

I miss the logic in this. Seduce I personaly only use to give me time to dot the target up and fear him at the point the dots start ticking. After that I start using direct damage abilities.
If you look at burst damage in the way of crits I would consider your way, if you just look at the highest damage per second it's not the most efficient way imo

Curse of Agony does do a lot of damage over time, but my target, and this should go for all destructo locks out there, rarely live long enough to see the full effect of Curse of Agony. If the target lives that long, I am doing something wrong, and chances are I'm going to die lol. Also, as a destructo lock, my spells usually crit every two to three casts so CoE usually gives more damage. Now if your a dot lock, this is completely different. You will see the full effect and probably half of another Curse of Agony.

Duckie · February 23, 2007, 05:31 AM

well that was exactly my question. I played destro lock for over a year.

This was a response on the casting sequence Chinkmachine said. In the example used I calculate a 23 second fight, Curse of Agony still only ticks 18 seconds.
I count 5 fire damage casts and 5 shadowdamage casts (next to CoE) and at the end when he used some fire abilities he uses Curse of Agony after all, which will never get to full strength anymore and if he casted it from the start it would have brought more damage then the abilities used sofar.

But I might be wrong

agamenn · February 23, 2007, 06:00 AM

That scenario just seems too shard intensive to me. Maybe in a duel or a 1v1 if you had all the right prep but never in a BG.

I would say that most fire locks nowadays would go with the immolate, incineratex3, conflag combo. Assuming as in chinkmachines scenario you were able to keep the target seduced or feared the entire time.

I will add though that with the insta-cast meta gem soulfire will be fun to toss around whenever it procs.

February 21, 2007, 03:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
ArcaneLust Registered	Soul Fire vs SB I've seen many people on the forums talk about burst damage combos. Some people choose to use SB and other people chose to use Soul Fire. Is the main difference that SF is only good if your a destro lock due to bane? Is there any reason that i should open with SB after a seduce instead of a SF? Also, i don't see ShadowFury in many people's list of tactics? What about huge burst damage after a seduce followed by a ShadowFury then Fear combo when the melee character gets too close. Fear is 2 seconds and ShadowFury is a 2 second stun.

February 21, 2007, 03:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chinkmachine Member Character Info Bozoisundead 70 Undead Warlock Lightnings Blade US PvP Guild: Aftermath Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Soul Fire vs SB well first off unless your destructo you wont get shadowfury. sf vs shadowbolt generally comes down to how much +fire gear you have versus how much + damage gear you have, and if you wanna use a shard or not. as a destructo lock, my normal duel tactic that i attempt to follow is this: succy seduce, curse of elements, soulfire, immolate, conflag, seduce, shadowbolt, immolate, corruption(instant), curse of agony, conflag, shadowfury, fear, shadowburn. of course this is the plan, and it doesnt always work out as planned, and most of the time they dont have enough hp to survive up to the shadowburn, but generally its just personal preference to start with sb or sf.

February 23, 2007, 03:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Duckie Member Character Info Duckie 70 Undead Warlock Stormrage Euro PvE Guild: Elitism Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/31/40	Re: Soul Fire vs SB SF is nice I agree, but using shard abilities have some downsides imo. if you are pvp-ing for example, you make a healthstone, open the fight with soulfire, shadowburn, SF and SB or incenerate and the enemy dies about instant. you use 3 shards and maybe gain one... If you make your fights that shard dependant you might get into trouble soon. Personaly I never use soulfire (very rarely) I rather use faster casting abilities and dot the target up while running. Chinkmachine uses 3 shards in the fight he describes. Looking at the fight I have the following question to chink : Don't you think that Curse of Agony in a fight brings more damage then CoE even when using a lot of fire abilities? CoE = 10% extra damage Soulfire : 200 extra damage immolage : 200 extra damage incenerate : 100 extra damage conflagrate : 150 extra damage makes 650 extra damage from CoE, with some crits this might be about 1000 damage, while Curse of Agony gives over 2000 damage. I miss the logic in this. Seduce I personaly only use to give me time to dot the target up and fear him at the point the dots start ticking. After that I start using direct damage abilities. If you look at burst damage in the way of crits I would consider your way, if you just look at the highest damage per second it's not the most efficient way imo

February 23, 2007, 05:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
Duckie Member Character Info Duckie 70 Undead Warlock Stormrage Euro PvE Guild: Elitism Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/31/40	Re: Soul Fire vs SB well that was exactly my question. I played destro lock for over a year. This was a response on the casting sequence Chinkmachine said. In the example used I calculate a 23 second fight, Curse of Agony still only ticks 18 seconds. I count 5 fire damage casts and 5 shadowdamage casts (next to CoE) and at the end when he used some fire abilities he uses Curse of Agony after all, which will never get to full strength anymore and if he casted it from the start it would have brought more damage then the abilities used sofar. But I might be wrong

February 23, 2007, 06:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
agamenn Member Character Info Agamenn 70 Human Warlock Cenarius US Guild: Midnight Guard Talent Spec: 42/8/11	Re: Soul Fire vs SB That scenario just seems too shard intensive to me. Maybe in a duel or a 1v1 if you had all the right prep but never in a BG. I would say that most fire locks nowadays would go with the immolate, incineratex3, conflag combo. Assuming as in chinkmachines scenario you were able to keep the target seduced or feared the entire time. I will add though that with the insta-cast meta gem soulfire will be fun to toss around whenever it procs.