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June 13, 2008, 02:26 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Aloysiah 70 Blood Elf Warlock Shadowsong US PvE Guild: Excessive Obscenity Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
Okay, so for anyone who wants to read this, the background is a bit long and might be a little confusing because 1. you, as the reader, were not actually there 2. I'm a horrible story teller and 3. it is a long story, very convoluted, and I'm a horrible story teller. BUT I just wanted to vent somewhere and just get some stuff off my chest. And to tell what I saw as my guild tried to progress ... and then all of a sudden went BOOM. So here it goes! Oh, and this is pretty long... I mean REALLY long. Also, I am leaving ALL names out of this. I am not flaming anyone or anything. Just venting and describing the way things went down from my lowly point of view. Last summer I did the huge rush run to get my warlock to 70 because my mother was a priest in a guild raiding Kara, and I wanted to raid with her (yes, my mother is awesome and plays WoW). So I got my warlock to 70, got into the guild with my mom, and became a backup raider. Although, that slowly changed as we got more people to do 2 groups. Soon, we were clearing Kara with two groups. It was a great bunch of people, or so it seemed to me. But a lot of people got gear and quit or they left because they said our guild was too cliquish (though I never saw that because apparently I was in the "in-crowd" ... ). Somehow our guild had become a "stepping stone" for people to gear up in Kara and move on to 25-man raiding guilds. We simply did not have the people yet, though we had the desire. However, since people kept gquitting or having to leave because of real life, we couldn't get the 25-man raiding off the ground. Although we did do Gruuls with another guild who did not have enough for 25-mans either. So this goes on for about 2 months or so, and eventually we do get to do 25-mans. We go into SSC for Lurker, and TK for VR and such. HOORAY! It was a blast. Chaotic, insane, dieing, repair bills, not enough money for epic mount ... no real life ... but it was FUN. But then we hit a rut, we kept farming the same bosses over and over and over again. And there was a huge uproar in the guild about the casual raiding versus the hardcore raiding... and a lot of people just said that we wanted to raid with friends. We had prided ourselves on being a "family" raiding guild. And in a lot of cases, we were. We joked, had fun, and blah blah, and killed stuff ... in fact, the same stuff over and over again. So then our guild looting rules changed, and times changed, and progression was pushed down our throats. Everyone was getting frustrated because we couldn't seem to progress... kept wiping on Al'ar over and over again. So we went back to farming the same bosses with no progression. Eventually our whole guild system goes into an uproar. The guild leader decided that we had too many officers, and cut them down drastically... but thats a whole other story and in the past, so we'll leave it at that. Needless to say, there were plenty of people not happy about that one (though I've never understood it, never wanted to be in charge, sounds scary!). But, as was our way, we settled down, and went back to killing stuff and having fun. But that wasn't enough. People wanted PROGRESSION. It was like they wanted to kill stuff NOW. If we wiped once it was BAD... kind of ruined it. Somehow, along the way, for me, it had turned into a job. Where had the fun gone? We were killing the same things over and over again, it was boring. We didn't try new things, except the same Al'ar attempts, and those were even getting tedious. We never tried any other sort of progression because people kept missing raids, or we didn't have "key things" or what not. So it was the same old thing. Ugh ... boring! BUT I had some fun with the actual raiders in the guild. They were fun to raid with, even if the actual raiding itself was like watching paint dry on a wall. (I swear I can go kill Lurker, VR, Solariaon(sp), all of Kara and Gruul with my eyes shut). So this goes on for awhile longer. And more stuff happens that I do not want to get into. But I was still raiding with my friends, and so I did not want to leave them. They were a good bunch of people! But then, a month or so ago, I had to take a break for a week because I had to move out of college and get to my mother's house which was about 16 hours away (I hate that drive). I come back to find a guild message "the guild has fallen, and moved to <not saying which guild>". Uhhh .... WHAT?!?!? I had left the guild the week before thinking everything was a-okay, and we were going to actually start to make a whack at progression and come back to THAT??? NO warning. I kid you not. WTF??? .... needless to say I was a bit peeved. There were a bunch of different rumors going around as to how it happened or why it happens, blah blah blah. And some other things went down with the switch... but I couldn't bring myself to follow them. There had been a lot of drama before that I had ignored or waved off ... and was in denial about a lot of other things ... but I loved to raid with them and considered some of them my friends. But there were some things that did happen, things said and what not that I just couldn't bring myself to go (not to mention I didn't really like the guild name that much). So I joined the guild I am in currently. Which is great. I love to raid with them. They are a crazy bunch of people and SO much fun to raid with. We actually got Hex Lord down for the first time last night! Was totally awesome! But ... we don't have the people for 25-mans. And I miss it SOOO much. I never realized just how much I loved it until I was unable to do it anymore. But I can deal with the loss of it. Hopefully one day I can go back to 25-man raiding. For right now, I am content to progress in ZA with my new guild ... but part of me wishes we had the people.... but I'm staying here because the people are freakin' whacko and make me LOL all the time. As for my "friends" in the <insert guild name here> ... they don't talk to me much anymore. Which has me wondering ... did they really consider me a friend? What happened?? As silly, inane, or naive as it sounds, I had thought we were friends and could keep in touch.... But even my friend who I used to talk to nonstop and such doesn't talk to me ... unless I send a tell to her, and even then its just a "hey" and nothing else ... I hear all these claims that they are our friends ... but how are they when they don't even take the time to say hello? ... I know this is pretty pathetic or what not. But ... its just frustrating to me. Over the past year I had thought I'd gotten to know these people and were great friends with them ... but since I decided that I couldn't agree to their terms in the new guild, I'm no longer one of them ... and its frustrating!!! Oh, they have never said anything mean to me or anything. But there is just that wall there. I guess my biggest thing is the one person I thought I could actually hang out with outside of the game is no longer even really talking to me. And that kind of sucks. Ah well, such is life... in a game. In the mean time, I am very happy in my new guild (although I do miss the 25-mans). I just wanted to share my little experience in the game ... and a first-hand account of how a guild that was a more casual "family" guild turns into a "hardcore" raiding guild. I wish them the best of luck and hold no ill will towards them. In the end, it is just a game ... and we are meant to have a fun in a game ... especially once we pay for !! Hehe. So to anyone that is frustrated, bored, angry, or not happy in their current guild, find a new one! A fresh start is sometimes all we need to make the game fun again. And to anyone that is going through this push from "casual" to "hardcore" all things should work themselves out. Its not the end of the world! I promise! :-) ... end of my prattling, venting, bad story telling, and preaching. |
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June 13, 2008, 02:41 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Malevevely 70 Undead Warlock KJ US PvP |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
New guilds are fun but it sounds like you found a winner eventually eventually you will get to the 25s again. Just find where you fit it is only a game but it is a game composed of real people. I have had a few invites from 2 of my former guildies to come down to california so they can show me a good time :D (I am from Ontario, Canada) One even offered me a place to crash while I was there. Once you find a guild where you truly fit it is a great game played more for the people then for the content. |
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June 13, 2008, 03:29 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Elricc 80 Human Warlock Nagrand Oceania PvE Guild: The Silver Hand Talent Spec: Destro |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
I can understand & sympathise with you completely as i have been where you are at right now. The challenge of 25 man raiding is great but the cost in personal terms can be high. The best advice I can give is keep trying & enjoy where you are at but don't stop looking over the horizon 
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June 13, 2008, 04:26 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Andal 70 Human Warlock Malfurion US PvE |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
Sounds like to me your guild had pretty much the same explosion that most guilds did just before or after The Burning Crusade came out. The Burning Crusade really ruined instancing for the very casual player.(maybe I mean RAIDING). After The Burning Crusade came out there was no more half-a$$ing it. You had to have the proper gear and not screw around if you wanted to see progression. Before The Burning Crusade you could have 40 ok people raiding. NOW, post The Burning Crusade you need to really know your class, have the proper enchants, grind the rep. with the right factions to get your goodies that each offers etc... No more Rogues wearing a ring with stats for a warrior. You need every stat every piece of gear can offer.( in other words no +Str on a piece for a rogue) Casual progression does exist but you have to look long and hard for it. And from what I have seen it doesn't always stay casual. Some people get to where they want "more" there is nothing wrong with that, but in a casual guild those are the people that need to move on. The problem is once they move on the guild is stuck in a rut farming the same bosses in Kara. See where the vicious circle starts? Play the game and have fun is my advice. If you find you yourself are wanting more progression, then maybe you are not too different from the ones that have already moved on. Good Luck no matter what and keep plugging away at it. A |
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July 02, 2008, 06:41 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Argamas 70 Human Warlock Aszune Euro PvE Guild: Cantonium Elites Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 21/40 |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
I can relate to your story . I was an officer in my guild back Pre-The Burning Crusade. We've been around since the Beta and faced several leave-waves. However just after The Burning Crusade came, we had a major splitt up. All our more dedicated raiders left. Most of those guys were my friends. Many people looked at me cause I was one of the offies, would I try to ressurect the guild again of leave with them? I was confused, why did they leave me? Weren't we friends? In the end I decided to join the breakaway guild. It was my biggest mistake. I never belonged there. After one month I left. For a week I was guildless, then my old guildies started wispering: come back, join us. I did it, and it was the best decision I made. The fun was back again, raiding went slow but we progressed well. I don't have that many friends in the guild, but we go well with eachother. A lot of laughter, chat and fun. I like the mix of raiding and fun. The best I can advise you, is to stay with your current guild and forget the old friends. Make sure that your guild maintain that "good feeling" and slowly expand, but be picky: our guild has succes because we try to take only people who already have friends in the guild. So take no hoppers, overambitious people etc. |
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November 19, 2008, 12:14 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
I have a somewhat similar story. I joined my old guild, Innkeepers of Azeroth, a while ago, and it was absolutely amazing. I am so glad that I joined, because I saw how a guild should truly be run. The guild leader, a gnome warlock, whose tag was Bornofdemons (I can tell you because he no longer plays) was the best guild leader I've ever seen. He wasn't on all the time, sure, but he made sure things stayed under control even when he wasn't there. One of his tricks was to plant a few alts in the guild, keep them hidden except for maybe a few so we wouldn't know if he was online or not  He had put a lot into the guild: we had quite a lot of bank space and a good tabard, and the ranks were well named and regulated. The guild wasn't a really hardcore guild, no requirements, fair and sensible rules. But they did have really good raid organization, and all the officers had friends in other guilds that they could call on to get people for a raid. The glead knew a lot of the officers IRL, but found time for everyone. He ran my mage alt through Gnomer 3 times almost consecutively. Everyone was welcoming, polite, helpful; it was great. The glead always kept things interesting: contests, lottery, prizes. My level 20 pally alt won 80g in a recruiting contest! Towards the end of this summer, things started to go downhill a little. I noticed some of the people that had been recruited weren't as nice as most. The glead was falling behind a little. I asked him about it, and he was getting busy with real life, a lot was changing. He told me he was going to have to quit playing the game in a while, and offered my guild leadership. I couldn't take it. I would have, I really would have, but it was august, and my account time would run out right before school. And I couldn't play during school, thats scholastic suicide. So I recommended a few others, and he made plans for the guild, and that was that. I developed a deep hatred for Stonetalon Mts. during the last week, and talked wistfully with the guild. Then school, and I was busy for a long time. Recently, I checked the Armory, and was unsurprised but saddened to see that "Bornofdemons" had disappeared from the Anvilmar server. I was also saddened, and surprised, to find that the guild had been disbanded.  It's a real pity, I thought to myself, those guys were great. I think I might still have "Bornofdemons" on my friends list, if they aren't auto deleted./salute P.S. As soon as I get a Death Knight up to 80, and get all the trinkets and mounts I have my eyes on, I am going to resurrect the guild. And it will be awesome. Look for Innkeepers of Azeroth. As... as soon as I get the time to play. *sigh* Last edited by Drew; November 19, 2008 at 12:22 AM.. |
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November 19, 2008, 08:38 AM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Sita 80 Human Warlock Ravenholdt Euro RP PvP Guild: The Valiant Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/13/5 |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
Well I'm not surprised to see this kind of stories,as a Guildleader myself in a Guild that exists since before The Burning Crusade, I can assure you I've faced simular problems, but one way or the other The Valiant was able to survive. We are no harcore Raiding Guild, it was never the intent nor will it ever be our goal, in fact we used to be a nice 'Leveling Guild' as people called it, basicly low level players joined us and we're able to level up in a nice and friendly enviroment, once they got to max level and grew the raiding microbe they moved on. At a certain point (The Burning Crusade was already released) we evolved to 'Casual Raiding and set foot into Kara, at first it was even hard to get 10 people geared and available for those 4-5hrs of Kara starting raids, once we got the hang of it and our better player got well geared, it was easier since we knew the place and due to the good gear and experience, the time to run Kara was reduced. However during the whole The Burning Crusade we hardly ever got the oportunity to do a full Guildrun at 25man Raids, lucky ZA was there as an 10man alternative. Seen this limited 'Casual raiding' we had going we lost always the better geared player, because it was time for them to move on, and we got into the cycle of having a good raiding group and having to start over building one... But all by all, this didn't impacted the general Guild atmosphere to much, it was basicly who we were as a Guild and we had a large number of 'Social' member who didn't Raid and just enjoyed the game and the compagny of our Guild. When WOTL came closer, things actually went bad, suddenly a lot of people wanted to see endgame contend and felt The Valiant wasn't cutting it for them anymore, they felt the deadline for The Burning Crusade was there and they had to move on, our number reduced and argument rose their ugly head. A few weeks before WOTL we decided to suspend all raids, and I spend some time leveing my alts. This allowed the Guild atmosphere to cooldown, and slowly the Guild recovered, new member started to join, since we had for serveral years the reputation of beeing one of the most friendly and social Guilds on the server. I informed the new guys, we had no raiding strategy yet, so they were aware of this from the beginning. Slowly people showed intrest in running Kara and ZA again, and without much trouble a raid group was setup to run on a weekly base. Ofcourse after the nerf, raids were a lot more easy and the runs went smooth. Now everyone is exploring Northend, so not much raid intrest, yet ... Main lesson I learned is, my Guild is a community of a certain type of player, mostly who come there for the combination of social contact and enjoyment of the game. Most of them have a busy personal life and never will have the time to do hardocre raiding, so sticking to our roots was the right choice, and yes this means some people move on, or don't like the slow progress the Guild makes, but this is who we are as a Guild and apparently it works for a certain type of players, in our way we enjoy ourselves. Love Sita
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The report of my death was an exaggeration. |
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November 19, 2008, 05:14 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
Status: Newly Registered User
Character Info
Warpy 80 Human Warlock Kul Tiras US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/0/18 |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
The story of the first guild sounds just like what happened to my previous guild. Al'ar is a bit more of a guild-killer, I think, than Teron or Archimonde. Our response to this problem was to split into an "aggressively casual" raiding guild which killed Al'ar within 24 hours and Illidan within 8 months and another, more casual, casual guild. Each of these guilds now has over 130 active members.
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November 19, 2008, 05:46 PM
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#9 (permalink) | |
Character Info
Barkle 80 Undead Warlock Rexxar US PvE Guild: Corpus Vile Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/41/30 |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
Quote:
The leadership of the guild needs to decide what the guild is, and allow those to move on who don't want that. Its a hard decision, but a guild can't be all things to all people. You can be a friendly community guild that raids without being a "hardcore" raiding guild. Just don't expect to be server first on Naxx. I'm not. |
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November 19, 2008, 07:20 PM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Akashy 80 Blood Elf Warlock Kel'Thuzad US PvP Guild: Lazerpewpewpew Talent Spec: 0/31/40 |
Re: Long story on guilds, raiding, friends, and progression
All these problems seem to resonate throughout. My current guild had the same problems. When I join there wasn't much raiding going on which was a little discouraging, but I stuck with it and found out why. Our guild seemed to be, at the time, a sort of stepping stone guild. Players would join us, run a few karas, which is all we could really manage, and then leave. This being the reason we didn't get very far past kara. I stuck with them through all these ups and downs, seemed every week we had a new group of fresh raiders. I did leave for a while, but the new guild was too hardcore for my schedule, so I returned. However as time pasted some raiders stayed, I assume for similar reasons to my own, casual raiding worked well with our RL schedules. Eventually enough people stayed and we managed to do more content, ie Gruuls/Mags, Which ended up gearing up all those devoted raiders, as we were given priority because of our devotion to the guild. As time went on that core group of raiders became very welled geared thus let us do higher content which in turn caused more people to stay. The guild grew from that point on. With the nerf we ended up getting all the way into T6 content, which for a casual raiding guild I think was pretty awesome. Since the xpac I have been promoted to Class leader, and with our "core group" of raiders we have high hopes for Wrath end game raiding. We know we won't be the best, and that was never our intentions, we are happy with what we are doing and that provides a great gaming experience. I can't wait.
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Some come to seek honor. I seek to reek havoc!! Last edited by Akashy; November 19, 2008 at 07:23 PM.. |
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