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July 20, 2009, 11:13 PM	#21 (permalink)
Shadow_Warlock	Re: Screw Mages, totally....really @Benituccio - IB is an escape from mark of faceless teleport is not an escape, teleport is like blink - oh hey! mages have that as well!. If you are beating your mages then your mages need to L2play. S_W
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July 21, 2009, 12:05 PM

#22 (permalink)

Benituccio

Re: Screw Mages, totally....really

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Warlock

@Benituccio - IB is an escape from mark of faceless teleport is not an escape, teleport is like blink - oh hey! mages have that as well!.

If you are beating your mages then your mages need to L2play.

S_W

L2play? It's not necessary to reply in such an aggressive way. Nerd-rage is for official forums only. The parse you pasted shows me that your warlocks aren't performing well. Either because of lack of gear or lack of skill. Every thread on respected Warlock fora proves with realistic simulation-crafts that our sustained dps is among the best in game. I can back those caclulations up with extensive raiding experience; My Cats, Rogues, Mages and my Warlock are among the best geared players on our server. Only beaten by some Last Resort players.

Example:
Ignis: Stop cast and all, I sustain 7.5k dps - Rogues sometimes beat me, but it's a close fight - Mages fluctuate around 6k sometimes peaking at 7.

Xt: Without handling ads I sustain roughly 8k dps. - Our rogues and DKs manage to pass 9k due to the heart exposing phase. The cats pass us if they manage to get behind the heart. Sometimes it bugs. Mages can't get near us.

Steelbreaker: Warlocks, me specifically pass 16k dps when using the rune of power. I usually end with 12k dps. Our mages Fluctuate between 8k and 10k dps.

Vezax: Our FB mages benefit most from the haste buffs. There is no going OOM if you're doing hardmode. If you do go OOM you're not managing your mana pool correctly and probably won't make the kill. FFB mages have very low mana costs, it's true. But they do significantly less damage than us and they can't tap.

Don't complain about Ice Block. It's ridiculous. First of all it has a high cooldown and second of all mages need it in PvE, we don't.

I don't think I need to give you any more examples.

You don't need to take my word for it. Just have a look on EJ, StratFu, Tankspot. Check the parses from realm's top guilds.

If mages keep beating you, you need to look in the mirror and see how you can ameliorate the way to play. Don't flame people with absurdities like: 'l2p'

Good luck

Last edited by Benituccio; July 21, 2009 at 01:10 PM..

July 21, 2009, 02:25 PM

#23 (permalink)

TiaMaster

Character Info
Tianshaan
80 Human Warlock
Terokkar US PvE
Guild: Vae Victus
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/13/58

Re: Screw Mages, totally....really

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benituccio

I would like to see this math on how locks should beat mages. I haven't even looked for it myself since lower geared mages can dominate me in just about every scenario I can think of including your examples.

So, really, it might just be a skill thing like the previous poster said, albeit a little douchey.

EDIT: Also, I always handle the side-jobs in Ulduar, lowering my DPS significantly in some fights. However, I am comparing myself to the mages in situations where its mostly tank-n-spank, or the mage is doing the side job instead of me.

__________________

July 21, 2009, 02:28 PM

#24 (permalink)

Benituccio

Re: Screw Mages, totally....really

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiaMaster

I sincerely apologize that I can't post any parses on this website for a variety of reasons. But what you could do is look up some renoun guild-websites, or performance oriented websites like stratfu and EJ and look up the parses yourself.

We can be very happy we didn't receive a nerf in 3.2. Cause honestly, I was expecting one.

Also, it's been a while now since the mages made part of the food-chain's top. In exceptional guilds the dps is dominated by mostly Rogues, Cats, well itemized DKs (With Ulduar being a melee heaven) and Warlocks. The meters usually have a pruple/yellow hue. The mages stick to their 6-7k dps and won't get anywhere near us inregular fights.

Last edited by Benituccio; July 21, 2009 at 02:34 PM..

July 21, 2009, 08:36 PM

#25 (permalink)

Shadow_Warlock

Re: Screw Mages, totally....really

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benituccio

Don't complain about Ice Block. It's ridiculous. First of all it has a high cooldown and second of all mages need it in PvE, we don't.

Mages already have an aggro dump so why does a mage who generates less TPS than a lock in need of Ice Block for PvE??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benituccio

Steelbreaker: Warlocks, me specifically pass 16k dps when using the rune of power. I usually end with 12k dps. Our mages Fluctuate between 8k and 10k dps.

Mages are a more mobile class than a lock..iron council is about moving around to take advantage of that rune of power every time it pops...so if your mages are getting out dps'd on a fight when they can blink around and move far better than a lock, then that kinda reinforces my point that maybe your mages need some help in the dps department.

Also I have no idea why the difference in your dps between Ignis and XT is only 500dps..when the general benchmark for a caster (not on adds) is upwards of 2K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benituccio

If mages keep beating you, you need to look in the mirror and see how you can ameliorate the way to play.

Wrong. Where did I say "mages keep beating me"?...what I am saying is a skilled mage..equally geared and using all his / her talents to the maximum..(yes like blink)...will out dps a lock, however finding a mage at this level is pretty rare - as your post confirms.

S_W

July 22, 2009, 06:03 AM

#26 (permalink)

Benituccio

Re: Screw Mages, totally....really

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Warlock

Mages already have an aggro dump so why does a mage who generates less TPS than a lock in need of Ice Block for PvE??
S_W

On the quoted: Mages' aggro dump is one of the worse aggro dumps ingame. It takes time to have its full effect and requires you to completely shut down your dps for 3 seconds. This link might be useful to you: Mages and Ulduar: the problems and solutions StratFu

How is it that a mage that relies on long casts is more mobile than us?

- We've got extremely short casts
- We don't rely on RnG
- We've got powerful DoTs
- We've got a useful and extremely potent instant cast
- Our Tier set bonus is extremely good and doesn't rely on RnG.

Please, redirect me to the 'general benchmarks'. As far as I know there isn't such a thing. You should really start looking up benchmarks from skilled and well known raiding guilds.

If you're referring to the statistics you posted earlier this week, here you go: WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

I'm using the same website you are and in T8 content Warlocks, in general, are performing much better than mages.

Anyhow, I've got a feeling you won't budge even when confronted with some hard numbers so, let's agree to disagree.

I think you and your Warlock sim-craft is utterly flawed. You think I and the rest of the simcrafting community is.

Last edited by Benituccio; July 22, 2009 at 06:42 AM..