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June 10, 2009, 05:08 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Guild expansion brain melting.
The long and the short of it is that my long time guild of people who have dubbed wow the "glorified chat room" want to start recruiting and getting into raiding. I'm the gm and guild rules have basically followed if you're a fun person you're in and there has never been much seriousness to it at all only a few people are level 80 and I'm the only one who has really stepped foot inside anything bigger than a 10 man sarth (yay for Pick up groups). So essentially I'm looking for pointers about how to manage any sort of guild expansion as after a long time of running along being completely casual I may now have to do the leader thing thus the brain melt. Any advice would be wonderful. |
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June 10, 2009, 08:39 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
Start small, 10 man Naxx. Don't try and make the jump to 25's immediately or everyone will just get frustrated and probably lose the guild. Talk to your guild and decide at what times and how often you want to raid, and here's the tough part, stick to it. I'm convinced the hardest part about keeping a raiding guild going is maintaining consistent raiders. Everything else; learning encounters, having chanting/gemming requirements, consumables, being prepared, etc etc etc, is secondary to having a core group of people you can count on for the long haul. Turning a casual guild into a raiding guild from the ground up is about getting the core people used to raiding together and used to raiding consistenly week in and week out. I think the best way to recruit for a guild like yours is to announce a 10 man Nax raid every week and just do it. If you have to pug, you pug, but keep the same raid times every week and eventually you'll befriend some of the people you pug with and possibly recruit them. Once you get more people who want to raid than you have slots for is when you have some options. Depending on how strong you think the core group is, you can announce a 25 man raid every week and pug it if you need to. Or you can institute some stricter raiding requirements, like best in slot enchants, best in slot gems, minimum attendance, consumable use, full PvE specs, and award raiding slots and/or loot based on who meets all of these requirements and generally try and tighten up your guild. Instituting one or more of these requirements will undoubtably cause you to lose some people, but will make your guild stronger in the long run. You will grow slower, but be better off for it in my opinion. As the GM I think it's your responsibility to be the most consistent person in the guild. You and the officers decide what the expectations and goals are and you set the example and enforce them fairly and don't ask any guild members to do anything you're not willing to do. Have well-known loot policies and codes of conduct and make them very clear to everyone in the guild and everyone you pug with. You decide what you want the guild to be and make that very clear so that members can then decide if that's what they want too. Some will leave but there will always be people with the same goals as you and once you get to be known for being a certain type of guild those people will come to you. |
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June 10, 2009, 08:56 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
Thanks much I love the pugging to recruit idea should make things a lot simpler than spamming chat channels all the time. |
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June 10, 2009, 08:57 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
 
Status: Subscriber
Character Info
Dyson 80 Human Warlock Scilla US PvP Guild: Eden Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
For you to receive advice, you aren't really giving a lot of detail on the type of guild you intend to turn this into which will be critical to understanding how to recruit and manage expectations of those you recruit. OTOH , I can appreciate that you are just now figuring out some of these questions yourself too. Also, you say you have only a few 80s, which sounds like you are really at an early stage of expansion and I presume all of the few 80s you have say they want to raid? Or is this you primarily that wants to raid? A few things you need to get clear - Are you going to be doing 10mans or 25mans? - Are you going to be starting at Naxx or at Ulduar? - How many days can you devote to raiding? -- 4 days? 2 days? - What time can you devote to raiding? -- Tue/Thu 7-12 for example? Saturday all day? -- ie are you a weekend raiding guild? a weeknight raiding guild? both? - How do you intend to handle loot? DKP, Loot Council, free rolls? - How ruthless do you intend to handle raid spots? - Purely Performance? Will you take good pugs over guildies who are unprepped for the raid? - Do you have a set of officers to help you with the expansion? - Do you have someone who is able to raid lead? This is a really special position to do well. You've been in bad and good pugs I presume? A lot of times the difference is made in how it was raid led. - Do you really want to be the GM or are you doing this as a defacto thing because no one else is doing it? - Are you intending to be a hardcore guild or a casual guild? harder-core guilds typically raid longer during progression to get content down more quickly so it gets on farm faster or get to hard modes faster, they also typically have harsher rules on pugging, on attendance, handling of AFKs etc. -- it's a different 'culture'. Etc. Overall, from the little I read in your post about what you are asking (essentially how to run a guild that is larger), you should probably go to WoW.com: The new WoW Insider and look at Officer's Quarters column for the last year or so to see the advice in being an officer or GM of a guild that is offered there. Also, if you've never run a raiding guild before, and it's only a few of you who are 80, consider handing the reins of the current guild to someone else (since it sounds like the majority of your guild doesnt want to raid -- only 80s can really) and take the few 80s you have and see if you can find a guild to join as a small group rather than disrupt the current culture of your guild if the 'majority' just want to have their leveling fun. By being part of an existing guild that raids, you would be able to get the experience in how to run such a guild by being part of such a guild. If you've only been in pugs before, you are kind of missing out on a dimension of your experience that you may want to get by being a follower in a good guild first unless you are really intent and passionate about leading your guild through this change yourself. Anyway, I hope some of this doesn't come across as too daunting -- I am intending to be thorough about things you seriously need to consider to take this step. Your question is a good one but it is also very complex and depends on strategy and how casual vs hardcore you want to be. Good Luck! |
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June 10, 2009, 09:08 AM
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#5 (permalink) | |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
Quote:
One of the hardest parts of changing a guild from social- to goal-oriented is that suddenly people will get left behind, because not everyone really wants to be goal oriented and in some cases, they're just not cut out for it. Koldfeat nailed most of the points, but missed an option: start again. Retain your current guild with it's values and ethos, but build a second guild which has a different intention. In my experience this provides a good chance for a complete mindset reset. The current guild are not suddenly burdened with extra rules and loot drama and socials who want to raid but only when you've put the content on farm etc. On the flip side this gives you (and your officers) a chance to build a framework and recruit people into that framework. They walk in to that guild from day one knowing how things are going to be, and where the lines are that'll get them thrown out. A lot of people may suddenly cry out at being "left behind". My solution to this has been to add a custom channel as a shared guild chat channel. It takes a little while to get used to, but for some people, it's the best of both worlds. They can have as many alts and friends in our social guild as they like. No rules, no restrictions. They're free to lurk in our shared channel anad likewise, the "raid" guild lurk there too. For raiding we make sure we use the shared channel for chat, instead of /raid, so even if people are on alts or not in that raid, they can still be involved and aren't excluded. With regards to scheduling, my experience has shown that this is the area most stress and problems are related to, loot being the other major area. Most guilds have a "turn up on the night and you may or may not get in depending on a million different factors" approach. Depending on how many active raiders and how oversubscribed you are, this can often lead a lot of complaint when people are passed over. I like to think Peace and Quiet (my guild) is fairly unique in that you can raid with 3 different CSC (character-spec-combos), you only get invited to raids when we know you can attend, and every raid that goes up contains the correct balance of roles, and you are warned in advance when the raid is going ahead. I could go on and on about options and choices and ideas I've tried, but in the end, you know who at least some of your core raiders will be and what you want. Don't be afraid to think outside of the box a little and tailor your scheduling and looting plans to fit with *your* guild, but be aware you may have to spend more time explaining your system than using it ;) What works for some is disastrous for others, and cookie-cutter template raiding scheduling and looting mechanisms (DKP etc) are not always the solution. Read around, draft some ideas, find someone to bounce them off, refine them. You should blog about the transition  - Eritha. |
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June 10, 2009, 10:59 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
Eritha makes a great point about having two guilds or two sets of groups. My guild accomplishes much the same result as Eritha described through different ranks within the guild. The most important ranks we are have are Officer, Raider, and Friends and Family. The Officer rank is self explanatory. The Raider rank is for people committed to the raiding progression goals of the guild and willing to meet all the expectations (many) that go along with that. All the rules and expectations are meant for these people and in return they get priority over other ranks for raid spots and gear and compete on an equal basis for such rewards with each other. This portion of the membership is fairly tightly managed so as to have the right amount of people to fill a raid every week without too many on the sidelines or any vacant spots. Friends and Family are people who are in the guild just for the social aspect or because they pvp with some of our raiders or they are family members or they like to occasionally have a chance to raid but don't want to meet all the requirements of a Raider or just like to say they are in a raiding guild or whatever. It doesn't really matter and almost any person who can be civil in /guild chat and not embarass the guild in /trade chat and knows a member can be in the guild this way. There are very few rules for them to follow but also little expectation of them ever raiding with the main raid group. This includes alts usually and the number of people who can be this rank is basically unlimited. We have another semi-temporary rank below Raider for people who applied and we recruited and are expected to be Raiders shortly after their trial period is done. They have the same rules and high expectations of Raiders and of course, get cut very little slack. This rank is also for Raiders that are being "punished" somehow for breaking a rule or expectation but not so bad as to warrant being gkicked, just put on "time-out" so to speak. It can also be for a Raider who wants/needs to take an extended break from raiding. The point is that the system operates much the same way Eritha described his two guilds. FnF members get exposure to raiding at least indirectly, they get the social aspect, sometimes they can even raid if they want to, and this seems to be enough for lots of people, but there is a clear distinction between what is expected of them and what is expected of a Raider and what goes along with that. This rank allows for people to move at their own pace and do whatever they want really, and if they should ever decide they want to be more serious, they have a good idea of what is expected because of the constant contact with the "raiding" portion of the guild through /guild chat and vent channels and the raiding portion has a good idea of what to expect from them because of that same contact. The entire guild benefits as well simply through the usual benefits a larger guild has over a smaller one. More people to casually level alts with, or run old content with, or have craft things, etc etc etc. |
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June 10, 2009, 11:34 AM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
I had the exact same dilemma about 6 months ago, and we went with the option of having a special "raiders" branch of our guild. (Kudo's to Sita from the den, and the layout of The Valiant) whom I sent the founders of the guild to look over the concept to mull over. It actually has worked out quite well, from being a set in cement for years family/friendly casual guild, to having a raiding branch. Did our fourth boss ?Kologorn? in Uld last week
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June 10, 2009, 12:50 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
I think most guilds are to some extent made up of this social/raiding split, like Kold and Werdna have described, with varying proportions of both. Dyson brings an important note to bear too, that if you haven't seen how these things work first hand in a guild that already raids, it may be hard to foresee common pitfalls and you may be underestimating the amount of work outside of just turning up and playing for a few hours that raiding can entail. The one thing I would say with guilds that have a social/raiding split is that sometimes there can be an expectation from socials that they can raid at their leisure without considering the bigger picture. At the time we were moving around T5 content and filling slots with socials was causing more problems than it was solving. Quite apart from the gearing issue, having raid exposure and knowing not to stand in the fire (which is all raiding really boils down to) can cause some horrendous set backs. Morale is the name of the game at that point, but it sounds like you may be a way away from having to deal with those problems for a while. Most problems go away if you have laid down the ground rules and everyone knows where they stand. The problems arrive when the rules aren't clear, or they're assumed, because people will tend to assume rules in their favour
Last edited by eritha; June 10, 2009 at 12:55 PM.. |
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June 10, 2009, 01:23 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Re: Guild expansion brain melting.
This is gonna sound negative, but it's not... -Stick to your guns, no matter what. -Be consistent; Any rule you put into effect has to stand for EVERYONE, no exceptions. -Prepare for the worst. Everyone is human, and once they become progression-minded, stuff (and people) can get crazy. -Don't over-recruit, but if you DO (stuff happens, spotty attendance, etc), make sure everyone knows up front what their role will be and how often they'll find themselves in raids. -Set a raiding schedule and keep it. Don't raid whatever content you're wokring on as a guild on offnights, it's not fair to the people who show up for the scheduled raids but use offnights for their personal time. I think that's it right now... enjoy yourself!!
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"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - RFK |
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