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November 03, 2008, 07:41 PM
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Improved Soul Leech
Welcome to the discussion thread on everything "Improved Soul Leech". Below you will find some useful information to give you a rough overview of this talent and how it comes into play, followed by comments, opinions and information from Warlocks who have first have experience with it. This thread is here to ask questions, seek advice and provide help and information on everything relating to Improved Soul Leech. Please remember to keep all replies on topic and polite. ...
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July 29, 2009, 10:45 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: Improved Soul Leech
hey pals, nice calculation. I don't know how accurate it is, but it looks good. So. The question is not the pure increase of dps the talent points give, but also what else you could do with it. Assume we have Backlash maxed already (drop 1 point in destructive reach) the only useful talent is supression, i.e. 3% hit. Now here comes my point: It depends on the gear that is available to you whether 3% hit (or 78 free hit rating) is worth more than those 2% increased damage. Since all items have spellpower on them anyways, usually by changing a hit for a non hit item you will replace hit with haste, crit or spirit. Ideally you might get 78 haste for the 78 hit, resulting in some 120 dps increase (according to EJ scalings). Those 2% damage increase should correspond to more or less the same (maybe a bit more). In practice you won't have that perfect item that changes your hit into haste. If you need to use lower ilvl items to get your hit rating down, the 3% hit from talents are worth less, maybe you only gain some 40 crit and loose 10 sp for example. On the other hand if speccing into supression allows you to switch in higher ilvl items, your gain will be higher and will most likely be worth dropping ISL. What happened now is that the current T8 best in slot gear sets for hit and non-hit sets are very similar, i.e. the gain from being able to reduce hit rating by 78 is quite small. As a result ISL specs win in simcraft. For my current equipment actually I think that supression would allow me to equip better items, so I should drop ISL. However I prefer having it since I like just nuking for quite a while without having to worry about mana (and keeping my glyph up even). Besides that, I agree that many fights give you time to life tap... I just personally prefer to tap less 
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July 29, 2009, 01:20 PM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Re: Improved Soul Leech
i have found its defo worth having the 2 points destructive reach only time i soul shatter now is when the tank screws up or im hitting the wrong thing. and since somebody reminded me of deathcoil i havnt been sitting around with half health and no mana and i never find myself trying to fit a life tap into my rotation i just make sure im not doing it at a time when the boss is about to do a lot of damage :-) that combined with other classes that have something that replace isl with something that is up all the time i just dont see it being worth the 5 points it costs. the question is. assuming you are hit capped with/without suppression what do you do with those points? Ade |
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July 29, 2009, 02:21 PM
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Palsbjørn 80 Gnome Warlock Agamaggan Euro PvP Guild: Red Army Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 3/13/55 |
Re: Improved Soul Leech
Quote:
The thing that makes ISL a kinda questionable choice is the 3 points spent to get to it. Personally, I favour shadowfury quite a lot as well since once you learn how to use it, it is awesome, but that is for an entirely different thread :-) |
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August 08, 2009, 08:42 AM
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#13 (permalink) | |
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Re: Improved Soul Leech
Quote:
That is to say, if you have a class like shadow priest who guarantees their refresh regularly, then you are left as a backup effectively. It's good to have a backup and if all the replenishers are like you, based on chance, having a few will help ensure higher uptime, however at the end of the day, this talent's replenishment is the delicious icing on the cake, the 2% mana proc works out as .06% of max mana per cast, which for me is about 120 mana. And with backdraft, heroism, some haste, etc, this is quite a lot of MP5. The heals from the prerequisite are also very nice for solo play (as is replenishment and mana return) pvp, and healing intense fights, ensuring you can get some comeback after lifetaps even if the healers are maxed out. I love this talent. But I don't use it for pvp, it might be good, but it's worse than the other options, but as I don't know first hand, I won't rate it. For 5mans mana is rarely an issue, even if the other DPS die, they have a competant destro lock in decent gear, however honestly, as a destro lock, I'm always the first DPS face down. Solo wise, it's nice, shame most of the rest of the tree isn't. People who have slammed this as useless really haven't thought it through. In naxx I lifetap about 8 or 9 times in the whole instance, most of which in the last 2 bosses. Not that I run naxx if I can help it now :P |
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August 08, 2009, 09:47 AM
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Palsbjørn 80 Gnome Warlock Agamaggan Euro PvP Guild: Red Army Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 3/13/55 |
Re: Improved Soul Leech
Quote:
In 3.2, this has changed a bit. The effect has moved from being applied over 15 seconds to now being applied over 5 seconds. Given the above (i.e. only one source at a time is relevant) and that warlocks have a time-to-proc of around 8-9 secs under normal circumstances, we can still be part of a 2 man team supplying the effect to any given raid although as has always been the case it is most likely unnecessary since the other sources still will apply the effect. A small disclaimer on this, is that I haven't been able to find any articles describing the overall proc-likelyhood (given their optimal rotation etc.) for all of the involved classes so if anyone comes across one it would be nice if we could get some info. I have, however, noticed that there seems to be no debuff associated with the change, so replenishment can be reapplied every time it procs (as could the old). Given real-world scenarios (sub-optimal casting conditions etc.) it might now be necessary to have more sources to keep it up - although I doubt it (as described above). It is true that the real value of the talent is in the 2% mana regen (and it is not 0,06% but 0,6%), but the evaluation you need to do is whether the 3 points in Soul leech itself are worth it - if they are for you then there is little doubt you should take ISL too (especially if you don't have hit-issues or choose to gear for hit and therefore don't need suppression). If ,however, you don't feel you need Soul Leech then it is a rather expensive talent to get ISL since you will effectively end up paying 5 talent points. |
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August 08, 2009, 01:30 PM
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#15 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Improved Soul Leech
I haven't read all the complicated maths stuff, so i'll cut to the chase. I recently re-specced as i realised i didn't have full points in destructive reach. I quite often have to let everyone else have a head start on dps as i have to wait until the tank has at least 30-40k threat before i start attacking, otherwise i get aggro. I also have to stop sometimes, and be very careful with soulshatter. This is a dps loss. I did have 2 points in imp SL, BUT i would much rather take the threat reduction talent for the sake of more dps. A lifetap is a GCD. Getting another 10-20 seconds of dps in when otherwise you would be stood still taking threat is worth much more than a life tap. If you have no threat problems fine, but for the sake of more dps, threat reduction wins. |
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August 15, 2009, 11:33 AM
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#16 (permalink) |
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Re: Improved Soul Leech
Yes .6% A typo on my part. I wish I had over 200K mana. And yes threat is a concern, I'm frequently rising around 80-90%. Fortunately with soulshatter more available, threat is slightly less of an issue. Bear in mind that if you're threat capped you're unlikely to be capped all fight, it becomes very subjective at this point, as you'll soulshatter once or twice and shouldn't have issues beyond that. So threat reduction is about 4% more dps per rank but only for the first 20-30% of the fight, assuming you're threat capped. ISL is very hard to quantify indeed however I'd estimate that it's much of a muchness after that point. Destructive reach or not (you can have isl and destro reach at the cost of spellpower, I'm not even sure where that fits in, but anyway) you have to wait to let the tank get a 20-30K buffer in case you conflag chaos bolt crit and he suceeds in missing at that point... and you're dead. |
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August 16, 2009, 07:32 AM
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#17 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Improved Soul Leech
Well, what i've actually done now is replaced my incinerate glyph with glyph of lifetap, since i'm life tapping more now. It is easy to keep up because of this and 140 extra spell power at all times is pretty nice. So now life tapping for me is certainly not a waste (apart from when the buff hasn't run out but 75% of my life taps are to refresh it) so for me i feel i have a nice balance. I need to test it out properly though, only tested on the dummy so far but got a good feeling about it. |
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