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| Naxxramas Raid instance available to both 10 and 25 man groups. |
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November 13, 2008, 09:59 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Xavron 80 Gnome Warlock Moon Guard US RP PvE Guild: Veritas Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Starting stats for Naxx-10?
So what are people expecting to use a minimum stats needed for Naxx-10? I spent some time digging through WoWHead, and figured out that prior to getting IL/200 gear (gear with item level 200 or better), we can, at best, attain the following stats. Making the assumption that a naked caster at level 80 will have about 175 INT, 60 STA, and 175 SPI - we can also look at the list of gear in the IL/174 to IL/199 bracket (a.k.a. upper-70s gear) and calculate the following theoretical maximums for stats: INT - 775 STA - 725 SPI - 720 Crit - 450 Haste - 650 Hit - 475 Bonus MP5 - 95 Spell Power - 1390 (add 40 for enchanters) Obliviously, it's impossible to raise all stats to the maximum at the same time. You *could* possibly get 1300 spell power, but you'd probably gimp your stats in other areas (like not getting to the hit cap). So the question is two-fold: 1) How much hit, spell power, INT, STA, etc. do we need prior to Naxx? Obviously, the 3 different builds are going to have slightly different priorities on stats like haste and crit. 2) Are the minimums attainable without having to chase down IL/200 gear from heroics, or revered/exalted status, or rare drops? ... I'm leaning towards 289 hit, 1200 spell damage, 500 int, 600 sta as being our minimums for warlocks to get into Naxx-10. (Those are self-buffed numbers, not including food, drink, potions.) 289 hit is a 6% (untalented) miss rate. With talents, it would drop to 3%, and with raid buffs should drop to zero. Warlocks can get 150-200 spell damage from their Fel Armor buff, so it should be possible for them to get up to 1000 spell damage without it, like the other casters, while not gimping their hit number or other stats. 500 int and 600 sta are basically "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks". |
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November 13, 2008, 10:07 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Psaurie 70 Human Warlock Sen'jin US PvE Guild: Honu Profile: http://wowmb.net/forums/Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41/9/11 |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
Sorry but those maximums must be off. I have about 1340 spell power now and only have T4 ish gear. |
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November 13, 2008, 10:22 AM
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#3 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Froshaka 80 Blood Elf Warlock Alexstrasza US PvE Guild: Is A Living Legend Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/56/15 |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
Quote:
otherwise...kudos! 
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November 13, 2008, 10:43 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kherien 70 Blood Elf Warlock bloodfeather(eu) Euro PvP Guild: Melancholy Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
1300+ power sounds a bit low tbh, but wasn't in beta so can't confirm it one way or another, tho i think elitistjerks had a post about 1700+ish spellpower with fresh level 80..... Really hoping i wasn't wrong, 1300 doesn't sound as uber number even now.... |
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November 13, 2008, 10:52 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
If you are serious about PVE, you will be hitcapped before stepping foot in a 10 man raid. If you are just starting out with your lock, you will quickly find out that getting to 477 spell hit (as your aggro dump and primary CC spell (Banish) have no talents for additional chance to hit, and before you point out that Naxx has no demons to banish, I will point out that the Plague wing has a TON of elementals that need banished, and since we are now fighting against other classes for raid slots, this will most likely be taken into consideration) will pretty much dictate all other stats until you start getting into T7 level gear. In otherwords, aiming for any particular number of stamina, intel, Spirit, Spell damage, spell crit, and spell haste is, in my opinion, folly. You have to get hit capped, then you can start worrying about other things.....you are totally worthless shooting spells to the left and right of what you are supposed to be killing. |
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November 13, 2008, 12:44 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
err casters in T6 / SWP items now are sporting between 1300 to 1400 spelldmg. given how the icecrown and other level 80 items are close / on par with these items ( baring sockets for customisation ) i think 1300 is on the low end of things. 15 to 1700 should be doable but i do note that the OP clearly states BEFORE heriocs ( since they are on par with naxx 10 ie ilvl 200 ) not sure if every piece of loot of every instance has been found yet + every quest logged into wowhead database. agreed tho that capping hit is prob the number one thing spirit int stam and the rest of the stats are fillers and will rise as you cap your hit |
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November 13, 2008, 01:32 PM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Kobekid 80 Human Warlock Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Good With Ketchup Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
Quote:
Example - Sunwell gear had practically no hit, as it was pretty much replaced with haste. Even though point for point hit was more valuable than haste, it wasn't enough to justify using gear based solely on getting your hit cap up. It wasn't uncommon to see a full Sunwell lock with 150-175 hit. Just keep in mind that Naxx is a Kara level raid. If you're decked out in Sunwell gear/level 80 blues, you're probably more than fine. |
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November 13, 2008, 02:58 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
Well, our spells aren't binary (in fact no school is binary anymore). So you can think you are hitting but you aren't REALLY hitting. So when you say "the price to get hit capped is too high" I am confused: There's nothing better, point for point, for your damage than hit cap. If I had 2500 Spell damage and 200 hit with no talents for hit, that means that 8% of my spells will miss or "glance." This is also a flat 8% bump in damage done by being capped. So to overcome that % to hit you have to have a numerically higher amount of haste or spell power or mix of the two than just an additional point of hit.... So in essence, this cost that you speak of is spending item points on less efficient means of increasing your DPS. When I first stepped foot into SSC, when I was hitcapped with around 800 Shadow damage, I was immediately outdpsing warlocks with 1300 shadow damage but 0 knowledge of hit cap or how spell hit worked at all. So I don't get what you are saying, really. As for the Sunwell gear: The gear was designed, in most cases, to be worn in conjunction with 4-pc T6 bonuses including the gear from the SW (belt, bracers, boots). So attaining hit cap was easy, any further hit was a complete and total waste of item points. I hate to break it to people, but since much of that gear lacks hit, and hit, as is universally accepted by everybody everywhere is the most efficient means to increase damage done until you are capped (or just slightly below it (I'd say 1-2%)) at which point it becomes worthless, the hit cap is higher and you will have to revert to your original T6 that had hit on nearly every piece. Make no mistake about it, you need 446 hit to get capped and if you ignore this for more spellpower or crit or haste, you are hurting yourself. Furthermore, think of the fact that numerous classes are bringing what warlocks have traditionally brought: Debuffs. There also many other classes doing the same damage as you without needing heals to do it. I can continue to go on, the Fire Destruction rotation is primarily based around Affliction spells proccing Fire Damage, meaning you can get a resist and since you were running from the fire in the encounter, you missed that it didn't proc and your dps sucks for that fight. Affliction is even worse because if your ticks are getting resisted you aren't doing damage. But, the two absolute worst feelings you can have (as it happened to me personally in Kara): 1) You banish a mob without being hitcapped, it breaks early, trash wipe, angry RC. 2) Al'ar lands, Shatter Resisted (Misses) raid wiped. Last edited by Tragik; November 13, 2008 at 04:52 PM.. |
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November 13, 2008, 06:00 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Debuff 80 Orc Warlock Sargeras US PvP Guild: Fenrir Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
Tragik, when you talk about spells not being binary or glancing you have to keep in mind that glancing spells and partial resists have nothing to do with hit rating at all. They are all causes by spell resistances so even being spell hit capped it is possible to get partial resists. The same applies to a banish breaking early. They can only break early if the mob wins one of its heartbeat checks, which are based off of resistances and not spell hit. Think about this example: Ring1 +1 hit rating +500 spell power Ring2 +40 hit rating +1 spell power Of course it's an exaggeration but it illustrates the point that cpimp is trying to make: you can't just say that because hit rating is point for point more efficient than everything else that you make your gear decisions based off of getting hit capped first and then everything else next. Gear decisions always have been and always will be a tradeoff. Each stat has a dps value and you have to weigh them all seperately. Yes, hit rating might have twice as much dps value as spell power but if you get an item that has three times as much spell power then the spell power item is the better choice. Oh, and just to re-iterate what I've said in the past about hit rating about CC spells (banish), mobs that you have to banish in a raid are never +3 to you, they are +2 and thus require much much less hit rating to become capped with. Last edited by Debuff; November 13, 2008 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: fixing grammar |
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November 13, 2008, 06:30 PM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Psaurie 70 Human Warlock Sen'jin US PvE Guild: Honu Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41/9/11 |
Re: Starting stats for Naxx-10?
My 1340 is self buffed (fel armor only) for grinding to 80. I did change a gem away from hit to spirit recently, since raids won't be happening again for a while. So, my hit is about 170 now (with a +hit wand and cape gets me to about 190). Really easy to get with a bunch of +12 damage gems, doesnt even include damage procs from Spellstrike set, Voidheart 2 piece, necklace proc, 2 trinkets proccing. Before regemming and retalenting with the last patch, I was raiding (affliction) up to SSC (barely) with 203 hit, 1295 damage but only about 11% crit. Last edited by Effenaye; November 13, 2008 at 06:35 PM.. |
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