+Spell Hit chance vs Improved Enslave

[xdiesp]

Do you know what amount of +Spell Hit chance bonuses you need to get the same effect of 2 points spent in Improved Enslave (except for the decreased handicaps for the demon,clearly)? And,this particularly interests me,is there a cap to the "effectiveness" of these bonuses on Enslave (the more and more that you get,like that after >30 spell hit chance,the enslavement chance and duration do not increase)?

[Jazinth]

I'd like to see the numbers on this too. If anyone can point out a good article on spell hit and how it affects enslave breaking, I'd appreciate it.

[Capric]

I know of none.

CC behavior is in general one of the least understood mechanics in WoW. The commonly held assumption is that there are periodic resist checks for breaking. What exactly these resist checks are, how frequently they occur, and what stats they compare against has never, to my knowledge, been fully modeled.

Enslave is particularly annoying to get numbers on due to the very long duration as well as diminishing returns which make gathering data from a single demon impossible. To get a good idea of duration distributions would require hundreds to (ideally) 1-2 thousand samples. At 3-5 minutes a sample.... that's a lot of time.

Anecdotally though, +spellhit% and the improved enslave seem to work about the same. When I wasn't specced into improved enslave I still usually got full durations when I had ~8-10% spellhit. With talents and wearing my enslavement suit (~210 hit rating at 70) it certainly seems like 2-3 full duration enslaves are pretty common. My sample size is both unrecorded and low, though, so take that for what you will.

Also anecdotally, Curse of Shadows doesn't really get you anything on mobs that don't have innate shadow resist. Mobs with shadow resist NEED to have it mitigated (through spell penetration gear or CoS) before you will get reliable enslaves even with pretty high +hit.

Concrete data would be great... it's just difficult to gather. It's accounting for all the potential variables that makes it tricky :-/

[Eefex]

My understanding of this particular mechanic is that spell hit improves your chance to initially hit with something like banish or enslave. If you want to reduce the chance of a target breaking the CC early you need more spell penetration. With that being said I don't really know the answer to your actual question, sorry.

[Jazinth]

Dare we take this to the main WoW forums

[Capric]

Originally Posted by Jazinth

Dare we take this to the main WoW forums

Only if you want rampant speculation in very authoritative tones, and a high noise level to boot.

Check EJ forums if you want harder data. People were fairly interested in CC mechanics when Naxx came out, due to the fights where Mind Control was necessary. And even then I don't think the system was well modeled.

There is currently a EJ thread running regarding +hit and shackle times which is fairly interesting, but even in EJ forums there's a lot of speculation and not much hard data.

People really don't have a good understanding of how CC works. Honestly, I've found better data here than in most places. There's an older thread around here somewhere that at least gives some details about how diminishing returns might work.

[xdiesp]

I found some data,but it may be wrong: +1% spell hit rating should be +12.62 at level 70 (taken from here). So,that +20% from Improved Enslave 2 would be like +252.4 spel hit rating.

Also I remember some patch log reporting that the dimishing odds for enslave caused the demon to become +10% more resistant to capture for every new try: in this scenario,+20% would then be 2 more succesfull enslavements before complete un-enslavability (no idea of the duration,though).

The real black box is the escape attempts by the demon. Some old guides report that they happen every 5 seconds: that would be 12 checks per minute or 60 per full 5 mins duration. My poor guess is that a number is rolled between (zero) and (100 minus dimishing returns,like 10 for second attempt) at each check,and when it's outside that range then the demon breaks free. Further limits would come from not using CoS on demons with shadow resistance. Like this,it would be mostly an exercise of luck

[Jazinth]

Any update on data sources for this question?

Thanks