Imp or Felguard for Demo?

[Dethcaller]

Has anyone in beta tested the damage between the two pets? The 5% crit from MD along with the 20% crit increase from demonic empowerment would be a good damage increaser along with keeping demonic pact up most of the time but of course you'd be using incinerate due to the fire damage increase from MD. Without emberstorm incinerate is probably still inferior to shadow bolt. With the felguard shadow bolt would get the damage increase from MD and the 20% haste from demonic empowerment is probably a better buff to DPS than the 20% crit from the imp's demonic empowerment. There's also improved imp and demonic brutality to keep in mind as well.

Only thinking about it without testing only goes so far though so I was wondering if any of you have tested using the imp vs. the felguard for demo DPS?

Dethcaller

[Zashir]

I've been too lazy to do the math, but I have indeed tested it. Now my results are bound to be controversial, but time and time again I've seen them repeated, testing anywhere and everywhere I could come up with.

With a full demonology spec, my Felguard's DPS is in the low 500 range, while my Imp's DPS has trouble breaking past 150. The Imp scales strongly with Demonic Pact, which makes very little difference for the Felguard, but the Felguard's base DPS seems to be so much higher that there really is no contest between them.

I keep hearing people going on and on about Imp DPS, Imp for burst, Imp for raids, etc. But frankly, he sucks. His DPS is incredibly mediocre, and his utility has become meager at best.

So yeah, my verdict is to go with the Felguard.

[Korakular]

Dont your tanks demand the stam bonus from the Imp? And doesn't the Felguard pull aggro at times? And I know what youre going to say, the tank is weak who loses aggro to a felguard...but in some cases it happens.

[Zashir]

I've never had my Felguard pull agro from a tank while it had Anguish disabled. His normal melee DPS should easily be out-agroed by any tank, even the most incompetent and undergeared ones. If you keep Anguish on autocast however, you might indeed occasionally out-agro the really crappy ones.

As for Blood Pact, no, I think most people by now realize that the 66 stamina (660 health unmodified) the Imp adds is insignificant on players with health levels of 14,000 and higher. And certainly doesn't measure up to the significant boost in DPS the Felguard offers. At level 60 there did indeed exist a large expectation by players for the warlock to switch to his Imp when grouping, but we luckily seem to have moved beyond that.

[Norber]

I did some testing on the PTR last night with the imp and the Felguard, The buffs I used were Fel armor, and Blackened Basilisk. Curse was Elements. target was a level 70 test dummy. As for DPS. I tried both the Felguard, and Imp. I was averaging 1000 - 1250 DPS with both pets. ( I did take 3/3 imp Imp. ) Seems it may be very situational. ie... Low armor or multiple close together targets use the Felguard. Higher armor or targets close to CC'ed mobs use the Imp.

Also my tests may have been a bit off as while using the imp I used Shadow bolts and not incinerate please note this was at level 70. Also using a Destro build I was able to hit around 1400 - 1600 DPS using the same buffs. builds as follows.

Demo build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01502135231301

Demo Rotation: Elements, Immo, Corruption, Shadow bolt, demonic empowerment on cool down . repeat. pop meta run in with Immo Aura up, continue with rotation. after meta ended run back out, and continue with rotation.

Destro build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

Destro rotation: Immo, Incin x2, Chaos bolt, Incin x2, Life tap, Conflag, Corruption, Agony. repeat. Note: instant dots do not eat Backdraft charges.

Note on affliction: Dot timer Ellipsis did not work on the target dummy. also target dummy has 1 HP constantly. So there is no way to test the "execute" function of Drain soul ( which is the huge DPS boost in affliction.)

[neej]

For Level 80 I plan Meta/Ruin and like to use:

Felguard for Solo/Boss Fights, non-CC duty in 5-man/10-man
Succubus for CC (Instant Seduce)
Imp for Non-FG scenarios (difficult movement etc.).

5% crit won't make up for the Felguard's damage. It's better than sacrifice though (Demonic Knowledge etc.). I also think that passive Imp for super movement actions might also be viable.

Question remains: Molten Core (rather for Imp usage) or Imp Shadow Bolt...?

[Zashir]

I indeed don't have Improved Imp. Also Curse of the Elements greatly favors your Imp, and does nothing for your Felguard. But even with those changes I can't imagine the Imp improving to the point that he can compare to the Felguard.

His firebolt has a 2.5 second cast time, and CRITS for about the same as my Felguard's non-crit melee hits. Now the felguard attacks significantly faster, and has Cleave on top of that. It's an object of some bewilderment to me that so many people are claiming so much more DPS from the Imp than I've been able to have him generate.

The only thing the Imp does have going for him is that he's pretty mana efficient now. A life tap any time you need one yourself (with Mana Feed) is likely to keep him going non stop as well. Whereas the Felguard is currently our largest mana guzzler.

[Norber]

Originally Posted by neej

5% crit won't make up for the Felguard's damage. It's better than sacrifice though (Demonic Knowledge etc.). I also think that passive Imp for super movement actions might also be viable.

Dont forget the Demonic empowerment buff for the imp is 20% more crit for 30 seconds ( every min you can cast this ). and with demonic empathy. this can really add up.

*** Information added 4 Minutes and 58 Seconds later... ***

Originally Posted by Zashir

I indeed don't have Improved Imp. Also Curse of the Elements greatly favors your Imp, and does nothing for your Felguard. But even with those changes I can't imagine the Imp improving to the point that he can compare to the Felguard.

His firebolt has a 2.5 second cast time, and CRITS for about the same as my Felguard's non-crit melee hits. Now the felguard attacks significantly faster, and has Cleave on top of that. It's an object of some bewilderment to me that so many people are claiming so much more DPS from the Imp than I've been able to have him generate.

I must say i was supprised as well. Since tonight is not a raid Night I will be testing some more on the PTR tonight. Ill try to Screen Shot the recount. Also since it is solo testing ill try and pick up Demonic pact. ( shame the ele shammy buff is better in raids ).

[Dunwich]

Originally Posted by Norber

Dont forget the Demonic empowerment buff for the imp is 20% more crit for 30 seconds ( every min you can cast this ). and with demonic empathy. this can really add up.

*** Information added 4 Minutes and 58 Seconds later... ***



I must say i was supprised as well. Since tonight is not a raid Night I will be testing some more on the PTR tonight. Ill try to Screen Shot the recount. Also since it is solo testing ill try and pick up Demonic pact. ( shame the ele shammy buff is better in raids ).

Yeah, that's the key right there. The Imp is now bringing the combined dps to high levels. Plus you don't have to worry about breaking CC with the Imp, I'm always having to turn off cleave so that sheep doesn't get broken.

[Zashir]

That's just it though. I hit Demonic Empowerment every minute on the minute, for both the Imp and the Felguard (while I'm on that, the Imp gains significantly from it, but the Felguard's DPS changes surprisingly little), as well as having Demonic Pact up pretty much 100% of the time. Still the highest DPS I've been able to get from the Imp is 148, while my Felguard is able to hit 540 (in Violation).