voidwalker as tank

[Lephturn]

Originally Posted by Amanita

Thanks for the info Lephturn, Evenflo.

Would you mind confirming my conclusions? As I understand it, after 3.0.3:

• A Demo 'lock can spec for VW tanking, and use one to solo mobs (like Felreavers) which were impossible to solo pre-3.0.2
• VW generates enough threat for you to reliably heal it with Heath Funnel
• VW threat generation isn't good enough to allow one to tank a heroic instance

• Yes, a specced demo lock can solo higher level elites that you could not before patch 3.
• Yes, the VW generates more than enough threat for you to heal it. You might have to back off a little on your dots, as stacking all dots and healing may get you aggro.
• VW threat generation is not good enough to tank a heroic with most groups. If your group is patient and holds back, sure, but basically it can't hold a candle to a "real" tank's threat. My estimate is the VW's aggro is maybe 40% of a real tanks, which is somewhat disapointing.

Originally Posted by Amanita

I'm an Afflock though, so I still have some important questions:

• Can I use VW this way for PvE *without* the Demo talents?
• Do Blizzard have any idea what they are doing with VW? Is this a result of a plan to make it a viable tank, or is it just another example of their using the WoW RNG as a subsitiute for intelligent design?
• What about the FG? Can it tank as well as the VW?

• Yes, you can tank with the VW without the talents, but not to the same level. You may not be able to do anything but health funnel and Curse of Weakness without getting aggro. Maybe a little corruption from time to time. You can use him the same way, but killing things will take a LONG time.
• I think they wanted to make the VW usable in some circumstances. I think they have managed to do that, although I do hope to see his threat buffed up to 80% of a real tank's so we can use him to tank - but he won't be as good as a real tank.
• The FG is fine for soloing/questing and when you are not tanking. But, if you want to off-tank, you are better to pull out the VW. The difference is how much I have to watch/heal the pet vs. DPS the group's target. With the VW I can debuff, hit DE, and let him tank. I can DPS the main target and just keep an eye on him, maybe coming back to heal him a bit later on. With the FG I can't just let him tank, I have to watch him more closely and heal him much more, so I can't DPS on other targets. In Heroics if I'm off-tanking, the FG just doesn't have the mitigation and will get killed without constant attention and healing. With the talented VW I can handle 2 and for a short time even 3 elite heroic mobs and still keep him up. As a Meta specced lock, I can even go Illidan and AoE to finish the last few mobs in a pull.

The difference to me is this: If I've got the FG out in a heroic or a tough instance and a pull goes wrong we're wiping anyway. If I've got the VW off-tanking and a pull goes wrong, with careful management and good use of Meta, I can prevent a wipe in some cases. We're not wiped until I'm dead, and with 61 points demonology, illidan form, and my VW out, I'm the last to die and can take a couple or three mobs with me - even in a heroic.

[Thralock]

80% of a "real" tank is too much. Especially if the comparison is prot specced.

I'd say 60% will give the VW viable use without nerfing the tanks out there. Ideal use is that the "real" tank goes down but the skilled lock FD's a VW in there to save the day, however the VW needs a "real" taunt to do that, which it lacks... If only suffering were changed to a "real" AoE taunt even if its a slightly longer CD then those of real tanks.

[Amanita]

I don't accept the argument that Warlocks should not be able to tank.

Considering what Blizzard has done with hybrid dps, I see no reason at all that a Warlock pet shouldn't be 95% as good as a specialized tank.

We will supposedly get 105% dps (coupled with zero utility) as our class dps edge over hybrids. +5%!! Fully specced, with every point in raider talents. Blizzard have tried to design away class specialization. Ofc even when they try their hardest they get it wrong, but the principle is established.

So I'm looking forward to getting a serious tank (might have it already but they seem to have been trying to make the VW into a PvP pet /kek). I'm also looking forward to our first healing pet, which will give us the ability to heal at 95% of a healbot druid.

No healing for Warlocks? Why not?

The core class characteristics are *gone*. Debuffing, DoTs, Fear, greater survivablity. All removed by design. Essential abilties to continue in our old roles have been handed out to our enemies - Druids got the player banish, rogues got the magic defense, mages got the magic resistance and DoT mitigation, raid utility spread around every other class - and all the rest went to DKs.

It's only fair that we get the ability to tank and heal hard instances as compensation.

[Lephturn]

Originally Posted by Thralock

80% of a "real" tank is too much. Especially if the comparison is prot specced.

I'd say 60% will give the VW viable use without nerfing the tanks out there. Ideal use is that the "real" tank goes down but the skilled lock FD's a VW in there to save the day, however the VW needs a "real" taunt to do that, which it lacks... If only suffering were changed to a "real" AoE taunt even if its a slightly longer CD then those of real tanks.

That doesn't make sense to me, given that hybrids are designed to do all of their roles within 5% of "pure" classes. Let's put it this way, I say my VW, if I spend talent points to make him the best tank he can be, should be able to tank almost as well as a Warrior with say 15 points in Prot. Maybe even just as well. Yes, a full prot warrior should be able to have say 20% more mitigation and generate 20% more threat. BUT, I don't think it's unreasonable for a full Demonology specced warlock to be able to tank non-heroic instances with a fully talented VW. And by "able to" I mean pull enough aggro that the DPS can actually DPS.

At least, a fully talented VW should be able to tank as well as a hunter pet.

[Vitriola]

I tried using big blue to tank Stinkbeard. Even if all I did was heal, he could not keep aggro. I have 3/3 in voidwalker and 2/2 health funnel. Also, I have the voidwalker glyph. The trouble was not his survival. It is MY survival.

The taunt is just not enough. I can see him not keeping taunt if I dot my brains out but I lost taunt with nothing but health funnel. I think that pet should be able to keep taunt if I just heal, siphon life and MAYBE one other dot just so that it does not take all day.

FWIW, I was able to solo Yggdras with blue, but I had to soul shatter to do it.

Anyway, I do not think that the voidwalker is a viable tank. If that is the case, then what is he good for?

Added: I just soloed Malas the Corruptor easily with blue. Perhaps Stinkbeard is just programmed to be nasty.

[Beebooga]

If I wanted to start pulling 5-6 mobs while leveling, I would pull out a Voidwalker, and then go Metamorphosis and destroy everything once it has enough aggro, but with that much armor add, I won't even need him to keep aggro.
But when I do 2-3 pulls, I usually have my felguard out since I just go one at a time and make him attack that one, even though I usually have aggro when he is at 5% but then DOTs just kill him.

[TPMdm]

Originally Posted by Vitriola

Anyway, I do not think that the voidwalker is a viable tank. If that is the case, then what is he good for?

Are you deep enough Demo to have Demonic Empowerment? If so you didn't mention that you used it. If you didn't use it why not?

(not sure who stinkbeard is so I'm not sure exacly what you are expecting from your VW)

[Randallone]

I soloed nearly every 3 player group quest (up to Icecrown) with my VW and some 5 man group quests. Problem is (for me at least) that it takes absolutely FOREVER to kill these mobs. I had to let my VW go through 2 sometimes 3 or 4 DE cds before I really got to lay into the mobs, otherwise I would pull threat just from HF, Curse of Agony and corruption dot.

Can you tank with VW? : yes
Is it that viable? : No (IMHO)

[Kosch]

It's viable, with lots of patience. There's got to be a downside for one warlock to become a tank/healer combo all the sudden. That downside is minimal dps.

I solo'd every group quest that didn't have some sort of mechanic to the fight. 3 mans, 5 mans everything. Unless it required 2 or more people to do something, like use an item at a given time, I solo'd it.

I even used my VW to tank the ring of blood type quest in Icecrown. It was me and 2 warriors, my VW held agro nicely with demonic empowerment and the warriors went nuts while watching Omen... hehe, but it worked

[Memento]

I'm the same, SL/FG spec and have solo'd all group quests so far (nearing the end of grizzly hills atm). VW is fine, just be a bit careful.

I think we should get a curse to increase VW threat, that along with talents and maybe gear could be a viable tanking option. As long as our personal dps is really low when tanking it can't be OP.