PvP pets?

Remix · November 23, 2004, 10:36 AM

After reading quite a bit on this forum and the official beta forums, I have a few questions about PvP pets.

The general impression I got was that the Imp is now the "best" PvP pet for Warlocks. I have seen quite a few negative responses towards the Succubus and I have seen nothing regarding the Felhunter.

If anyone could clarify or be a little more specific as to why which pet should or should not be used in PvP that would be extremely helpful.

Farbauti · November 23, 2004, 10:40 AM

imp seems to to be the best pvp pet although the felhunter is probably pull some weight against casters

Jubal · November 23, 2004, 10:48 AM

I dont know much about the Felhunter, but Id bet he could make a nuiscance to the enemy, hehee.

I personally am going for boosting the tar out of my Imp, and will use him in PvP/E.

Rasputin · November 23, 2004, 11:05 AM

The imp is widely regarded as the "PvP" pet because he doesn't cost any soul-shards. You cannot get any more soul-shards when you are out PvPing, so having a pet out that is free helps out a lot.

A succubus may be more effective, but after PvPing for 15 minutes, you will find the imp is the only thing you can afford.

Deathstrider · November 23, 2004, 12:32 PM

Rasputin,

Depends on what you mean by effective. Succubus is great for mez, but her max DPS even with talents is only about 56 vs an equivalent level mob. Imp DPS is double that. Granted he can only heavy-fire for 18 seconds (a tad longer if you give him a mana buff via Arcane Intellect and Mark of the Wild) but he regens about 45 mana a second--not too bad considering.

Felhunter will tear up casters. He's got an 8-second spell lock. Combined with CoT, that's gg caster.

Remix · November 23, 2004, 01:00 PM

I didn't even consider the soul shard issue, but that's a big boost to the Imp.

Heavy fire for 18 secs sounds pretty good, but are most fights over in 18 secs or less? If so, then Imp/Felhunter is definitely the way to go.

But if fights last longer then 18 secs, Succubus/Felhunter seems to be more useful due to sustained DPS.

The main thing I see is that with talents, a Succubus has 56 DPS. Doubling that for an Imp puts them at 112 DPS. Warlock spells when properly boosted with talents seem to do quite a bit more then either pet. Doesn't that mean the utility a pet lends is more useful then their damage potential? So then it'd boil down to +Sta, Mez or "gg caster".

Deathstrider · November 23, 2004, 01:25 PM

Attacking a mezzed caster breaks the mez. The Felhunter's 8 second spell lock doesn't prevent you from nuking them.

As for the Imp / Succubus debate, here are the numbers.

Succubus hits once every 1.5s and, against an equivalent level mob, does around 72 damage. That's 48 DPS. Fully talented, she'll do about 56 DPS.

The Imp nukes. Fully buffed he has 2072 mana, and each Firebolt costs 115. That's 18 firebolts. He then regens 180 mana every 4 seconds, which means every 4th second he gets a Firebolt.

So...

4th second of regen: Imp fires. 65 mana left over.
8th second: Imp fires. 130 mana left over.
9th second: Imp fires again. 15 mana left.
13th second: 195 mana. Imp fires. 80 mana remaining.
17th second: 260 mana. Imp fires. 145 mana remaining.
18th second: Imp fires again. 30 mana remaining.
22nd second: 195 mana. imp fires. 80 mana remaining.
26th second: 260 mana. Imp fires. 145 mana remaining.
27th second: Imp fires. 30 mana remaining.

Thus....

Imp DPS with talents is around 114 for that first 18 seconds. The next 27 seconds, Imp DPS is about 38.

If we average the whole thing together, Imp DPS over time is: 68.4 DPS.

That's over 45 seconds. True, Succubus DPS will *eventually* be higher than Imp's, but you can always summon a fresh imp for free.

Remix · November 23, 2004, 02:42 PM

By fully buffed I assume you mean full Imp talents to get the 68.4 DPS.

So with a sustainable 68.4 DPS vs sustainable 56 DPS; Imp is clearly better.

But how does this DPS compare to a Warlock's DPS? Alot of talents are geared towards increasing that, so maybe for a better PvP build would be to not focus on pets at all. That does seem to be the trend for all the build's I've seen.

Deathstrider · November 23, 2004, 03:24 PM

Remix,

Two responses to that.

First, the Imp can be very useful in late-game instances, so if you intend to do any PvE content (and you will want to, of course, in order to get the phat lewtz ;)) you'll probably have him out for the group stamina buff (currently +54 stamina at level 60). The only other Pet people use in instances (at least up to BRD) is the Voidwalker, since he off-tanks well.

In a group of 5, Improved Imp gets you a 30% buff to Blood Pact. That's the difference between 54 and 41, or 130 HP per player. You also get buffs to whatever the Imp's defensive fire shield is called (I forget the name) and of course fire bolt itself.

Now your point about "can these points be better invested elsewhere" is a good question. To that I'd answer that Improved Imp's position at the beginning of the Demonology Tree and the Improved Firebolt relatively early make it worth it. It helps that several of the Destruction tree talents are reasonably PvP-friendly.

Silvarion · November 23, 2004, 04:25 PM

Deathstrider posted:

Quote:

Felhunter will tear up casters. He's got an 8-second spell lock. Combined with CoT, that's gg caster.

Death, what do you mean by 'spell lock'?

Silvarion :?:

November 23, 2004, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Remix Registered	PvP pets? After reading quite a bit on this forum and the official beta forums, I have a few questions about PvP pets. The general impression I got was that the Imp is now the "best" PvP pet for Warlocks. I have seen quite a few negative responses towards the Succubus and I have seen nothing regarding the Felhunter. If anyone could clarify or be a little more specific as to why which pet should or should not be used in PvP that would be extremely helpful.

November 23, 2004, 10:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
Farbauti Member	PvP pets? imp seems to to be the best pvp pet although the felhunter is probably pull some weight against casters

November 23, 2004, 10:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jubal Member	PvP pets? I dont know much about the Felhunter, but Id bet he could make a nuiscance to the enemy, hehee. I personally am going for boosting the tar out of my Imp, and will use him in PvP/E.

November 23, 2004, 11:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Rasputin Member	PvP pets? The imp is widely regarded as the "PvP" pet because he doesn't cost any soul-shards. You cannot get any more soul-shards when you are out PvPing, so having a pet out that is free helps out a lot. A succubus may be more effective, but after PvPing for 15 minutes, you will find the imp is the only thing you can afford.

November 23, 2004, 12:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
Deathstrider Member	PvP pets? Rasputin, Depends on what you mean by effective. Succubus is great for mez, but her max DPS even with talents is only about 56 vs an equivalent level mob. Imp DPS is double that. Granted he can only heavy-fire for 18 seconds (a tad longer if you give him a mana buff via Arcane Intellect and Mark of the Wild) but he regens about 45 mana a second--not too bad considering. Felhunter will tear up casters. He's got an 8-second spell lock. Combined with CoT, that's gg caster.

November 23, 2004, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Remix Registered	PvP pets? I didn't even consider the soul shard issue, but that's a big boost to the Imp. Heavy fire for 18 secs sounds pretty good, but are most fights over in 18 secs or less? If so, then Imp/Felhunter is definitely the way to go. But if fights last longer then 18 secs, Succubus/Felhunter seems to be more useful due to sustained DPS. The main thing I see is that with talents, a Succubus has 56 DPS. Doubling that for an Imp puts them at 112 DPS. Warlock spells when properly boosted with talents seem to do quite a bit more then either pet. Doesn't that mean the utility a pet lends is more useful then their damage potential? So then it'd boil down to +Sta, Mez or "gg caster".

November 23, 2004, 01:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
Deathstrider Member	PvP pets? Attacking a mezzed caster breaks the mez. The Felhunter's 8 second spell lock doesn't prevent you from nuking them. As for the Imp / Succubus debate, here are the numbers. Succubus hits once every 1.5s and, against an equivalent level mob, does around 72 damage. That's 48 DPS. Fully talented, she'll do about 56 DPS. The Imp nukes. Fully buffed he has 2072 mana, and each Firebolt costs 115. That's 18 firebolts. He then regens 180 mana every 4 seconds, which means every 4th second he gets a Firebolt. So... 4th second of regen: Imp fires. 65 mana left over. 8th second: Imp fires. 130 mana left over. 9th second: Imp fires again. 15 mana left. 13th second: 195 mana. Imp fires. 80 mana remaining. 17th second: 260 mana. Imp fires. 145 mana remaining. 18th second: Imp fires again. 30 mana remaining. 22nd second: 195 mana. imp fires. 80 mana remaining. 26th second: 260 mana. Imp fires. 145 mana remaining. 27th second: Imp fires. 30 mana remaining. Thus.... Imp DPS with talents is around 114 for that first 18 seconds. The next 27 seconds, Imp DPS is about 38. If we average the whole thing together, Imp DPS over time is: 68.4 DPS. That's over 45 seconds. True, Succubus DPS will eventually be higher than Imp's, but you can always summon a fresh imp for free.

November 23, 2004, 02:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Remix Registered	PvP pets? By fully buffed I assume you mean full Imp talents to get the 68.4 DPS. So with a sustainable 68.4 DPS vs sustainable 56 DPS; Imp is clearly better. But how does this DPS compare to a Warlock's DPS? Alot of talents are geared towards increasing that, so maybe for a better PvP build would be to not focus on pets at all. That does seem to be the trend for all the build's I've seen.

November 23, 2004, 03:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Deathstrider Member	PvP pets? Remix, Two responses to that. First, the Imp can be very useful in late-game instances, so if you intend to do any PvE content (and you will want to, of course, in order to get the phat lewtz ;)) you'll probably have him out for the group stamina buff (currently +54 stamina at level 60). The only other Pet people use in instances (at least up to BRD) is the Voidwalker, since he off-tanks well. In a group of 5, Improved Imp gets you a 30% buff to Blood Pact. That's the difference between 54 and 41, or 130 HP per player. You also get buffs to whatever the Imp's defensive fire shield is called (I forget the name) and of course fire bolt itself. Now your point about "can these points be better invested elsewhere" is a good question. To that I'd answer that Improved Imp's position at the beginning of the Demonology Tree and the Improved Firebolt relatively early make it worth it. It helps that several of the Destruction tree talents are reasonably PvP-friendly.