Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp?

Amira_of_Darkspear · January 17, 2005, 10:32 AM

So how do you use these if you happen to be able to get one? The infernal is a fairly easy one to get but I have pretty much only found one way to use him well. This way is to run up with void shield and cast him in the middle of the biggest group of people you can see. If you can manage to get to the middle of them and hellfire before you die thats even better. Then you have a soulstone to get you back out to watch the chaos. A charge right after this technique is performed is very effective even if your outnumbered by two to one... The infernal disorients and really kills any nearby people when its on a rampage and not under anyones controll. The doomguard is a bit more tricky
to get and not really worth it to me, he dies faster then the infernal, but has some great utility spells.

Now to go into the problms of using these spells in pvp:
1.) Enslave demon is dispellable... thus unless you use the sacrifice technique to get behind enemy lines to let it run on a rampage you always have the risk of it being dispelled and getting behind YOUR lines.
2.) If the demon breaks charm when behind enemy lines, and is hit a couple times it is considered "tapped" and is greyed out to you. All you can do then is banish it, you can no longer charm it.
3.) They are very situational, and generally used against big groups of people to achieve maximum effect. Using them 1v1 is overkill... unless the person happens to have dispell in which case your a very dead warlock unless some friendly people save you.
4.) You only got a garunteed way to summon a demon every hour with the infernal... the doomguard takes a few trys usually and should only be resorted to as a last resort, or if you dont have infernal up anymore and the enemy still hasnt retreated. Again... if people get the bright idea to dispell your charmed minions of death... your not in good shape.

Azadon · January 18, 2005, 06:32 AM

If your pet gets dispelled then tapped, is it possible to regain the ability to charm it ever? Couldn't you banish it, then charm it afterwards?

And what if you do damage to it first after the dispell? (As unlikely as that may be) Could you Curse of Agony to do some insta-damage, then banish, then charm?

Also, how much hate does it have for you? Is there ANY amount of damage it could take to get it to hate someone else? As far as I know, there are no spells that wipe hate list like in DAoC, or is there? Could that be used (by a group member to help you out, since we definitely don't have that ability.)

Can the fellhunter eat a charm off of an enemy doomguard?

Amira_of_Darkspear · January 18, 2005, 07:03 AM

When it gets tapped it never seems to become untapped. once it greys out to you its kill it. or maybe if you kept banishing it until everyone that hit it died / logged out you might have a chance to charm it again. I banished one four times after it was tapped it still was greyed out to me. If you do manage to do enough damage first you could recharm it... but then they could just redispell it too. The hate it has for you is pretty bad, but not all encompassing. It still takes alot to get a charmed demon that has broke/been dispelled of it's charm off of you. And if you could eat the buff with the fel hunter I dont know. Only bad thing about my infernal idea is you actually take a decent hit to your armor and actually have a fair repair cost (because the infernal will probly kill you thus it is considered npc kill and your armor takes a normal hit.) On the other hand I am sure I repayed at least 20 horde last night in Xroads at least as much as it costed me to repair /summon infernal. I did the suicide drop in the middle of crossroads when I first arrived (dropped an infernal and died with soul stone immediately rezzing and running back as the infernal tore into the horde). The infernal rampaged attacking non pvp enabled horde... everything. 5-10 minutes later I saw it and had to take it down because it was starting to annoy allience. But there were very few horde in sight at this time... they came after it was dead though lol.

Azadon · January 18, 2005, 11:43 AM

Once it's free of controll, it just stays permanantly until killed? Damn, that's pretty nasty in and of itself.

Amira_of_Darkspear · January 18, 2005, 02:04 PM

Pretty much... but you gotta use them in the middle of a city or something for best results... if they fail to aggro something withen like 5 to 10 seconds of being freed they poof. but once they start chasing people around and killing them its highly likely it will stay and it will do some good damage until theres either nothing left to kill or until it is killed. Its not like you can just make a ton of doomguard to wander the newbie areas slaughtering a bunch of newb horde etc. So the only good use for these atm are mass pvps where you know they will chase a bunch of peeps around right when they are free. unfortunatly it almost always comes back home to roost pretty much and starts chasing you and your allience friends after mauling a bunch of horde lol.

Kebkin · January 21, 2005, 11:04 AM

In PvE, if someone outside the group taps a mob, you can still cast spells and damage it even though it is grayed out to you. You just don't get credit for the kill, which means you don't get EXP or looting rights. Thats fine for regular PvE.

In PvP, if you have a enslaved doomguard/infernal that gets dispelled and then tapped by someone else, Enslave Demon should still work. Thats the easy fix. If Blizzard does not want us to use doomguards/infernals for PvP, then they need to change how Dispel works on them. In addition to removing Enslave Demon, it should also clear hate aggro. That way, the demon either makes a beeline to the person who cast dispell on it or it attacks whoever is closest to it.

Kebkin

Soni · January 21, 2005, 11:34 AM

They should just make it so that Enslave Demon taps a mob. Leave that you can't cast it on previously tapped demons.

It should be non-Dispellable as well. I like the idea of felhunter's Devour Magic dispelling it, but nothing else. Then a Warlock has to counter a Warlock either with Felhunter or Banish.

Amira_of_Darkspear · January 21, 2005, 01:22 PM

Yeah exactly. Easy fixes but as it is they arent too useful as of yet. But still I summon one then I die... and when I get back the area is littered with corpses and I see an infernal chasing the remaining force away lol.

Kebkin · January 21, 2005, 02:30 PM

How about this tactic:

1) Use a Soulstone on yourself.
2) Send infernal/doomguard into a pack of enemy players.
3) Lifetap your HPs down then Hellfire yourself to death.
4) Infernal/doomguard released from enslavement and wreaks havoc on anyone nearby
5) Rez yourself with the Soulstone.

Freemantle · January 27, 2005, 03:40 PM

Are you sure that the tapping rule is still true? In a quest in Desolace where you have to invade the burning blade base and smash a crystal to kill a demon inside. After clearing all of the mobs, a shaman jumped in front of me and smashed the stone, tapping the Demon for himself. Peeved, I enslaved the demon and walked him outside and set him on the repops. The shaman was unable to attack him, and eventually the repops mobbed the demon and killed him (the demon left no corpse, just dissapeared). The shaman whined about how I greifed him until I /ignored him and finished the quest for myself. Maybe it was different because he was a quest mob.

Oh, and using area demons in PvP is very efficent. There was once in Mannorac Coven that I used an infernal to stomp on a level 38 rogue that was harrasing me and a friend. Fire Shield III is beautiful.

January 17, 2005, 10:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
Amira_of_Darkspear Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? So how do you use these if you happen to be able to get one? The infernal is a fairly easy one to get but I have pretty much only found one way to use him well. This way is to run up with void shield and cast him in the middle of the biggest group of people you can see. If you can manage to get to the middle of them and hellfire before you die thats even better. Then you have a soulstone to get you back out to watch the chaos. A charge right after this technique is performed is very effective even if your outnumbered by two to one... The infernal disorients and really kills any nearby people when its on a rampage and not under anyones controll. The doomguard is a bit more tricky to get and not really worth it to me, he dies faster then the infernal, but has some great utility spells. Now to go into the problms of using these spells in pvp: 1.) Enslave demon is dispellable... thus unless you use the sacrifice technique to get behind enemy lines to let it run on a rampage you always have the risk of it being dispelled and getting behind YOUR lines. 2.) If the demon breaks charm when behind enemy lines, and is hit a couple times it is considered "tapped" and is greyed out to you. All you can do then is banish it, you can no longer charm it. 3.) They are very situational, and generally used against big groups of people to achieve maximum effect. Using them 1v1 is overkill... unless the person happens to have dispell in which case your a very dead warlock unless some friendly people save you. 4.) You only got a garunteed way to summon a demon every hour with the infernal... the doomguard takes a few trys usually and should only be resorted to as a last resort, or if you dont have infernal up anymore and the enemy still hasnt retreated. Again... if people get the bright idea to dispell your charmed minions of death... your not in good shape.

January 18, 2005, 06:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
Azadon Registered	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? If your pet gets dispelled then tapped, is it possible to regain the ability to charm it ever? Couldn't you banish it, then charm it afterwards? And what if you do damage to it first after the dispell? (As unlikely as that may be) Could you Curse of Agony to do some insta-damage, then banish, then charm? Also, how much hate does it have for you? Is there ANY amount of damage it could take to get it to hate someone else? As far as I know, there are no spells that wipe hate list like in DAoC, or is there? Could that be used (by a group member to help you out, since we definitely don't have that ability.) Can the fellhunter eat a charm off of an enemy doomguard?

January 18, 2005, 07:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Amira_of_Darkspear Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? When it gets tapped it never seems to become untapped. once it greys out to you its kill it. or maybe if you kept banishing it until everyone that hit it died / logged out you might have a chance to charm it again. I banished one four times after it was tapped it still was greyed out to me. If you do manage to do enough damage first you could recharm it... but then they could just redispell it too. The hate it has for you is pretty bad, but not all encompassing. It still takes alot to get a charmed demon that has broke/been dispelled of it's charm off of you. And if you could eat the buff with the fel hunter I dont know. Only bad thing about my infernal idea is you actually take a decent hit to your armor and actually have a fair repair cost (because the infernal will probly kill you thus it is considered npc kill and your armor takes a normal hit.) On the other hand I am sure I repayed at least 20 horde last night in Xroads at least as much as it costed me to repair /summon infernal. I did the suicide drop in the middle of crossroads when I first arrived (dropped an infernal and died with soul stone immediately rezzing and running back as the infernal tore into the horde). The infernal rampaged attacking non pvp enabled horde... everything. 5-10 minutes later I saw it and had to take it down because it was starting to annoy allience. But there were very few horde in sight at this time... they came after it was dead though lol.

January 18, 2005, 11:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
Azadon Registered	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? Once it's free of controll, it just stays permanantly until killed? Damn, that's pretty nasty in and of itself.

January 18, 2005, 02:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Amira_of_Darkspear Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? Pretty much... but you gotta use them in the middle of a city or something for best results... if they fail to aggro something withen like 5 to 10 seconds of being freed they poof. but once they start chasing people around and killing them its highly likely it will stay and it will do some good damage until theres either nothing left to kill or until it is killed. Its not like you can just make a ton of doomguard to wander the newbie areas slaughtering a bunch of newb horde etc. So the only good use for these atm are mass pvps where you know they will chase a bunch of peeps around right when they are free. unfortunatly it almost always comes back home to roost pretty much and starts chasing you and your allience friends after mauling a bunch of horde lol.

January 21, 2005, 11:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kebkin Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? In PvE, if someone outside the group taps a mob, you can still cast spells and damage it even though it is grayed out to you. You just don't get credit for the kill, which means you don't get EXP or looting rights. Thats fine for regular PvE. In PvP, if you have a enslaved doomguard/infernal that gets dispelled and then tapped by someone else, Enslave Demon should still work. Thats the easy fix. If Blizzard does not want us to use doomguards/infernals for PvP, then they need to change how Dispel works on them. In addition to removing Enslave Demon, it should also clear hate aggro. That way, the demon either makes a beeline to the person who cast dispell on it or it attacks whoever is closest to it. Kebkin

January 21, 2005, 11:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
Soni Member Character Info Soni 80 Human Warlock Frostwolf US PvP Guild: Beastly Fido Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/0/17	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? They should just make it so that Enslave Demon taps a mob. Leave that you can't cast it on previously tapped demons. It should be non-Dispellable as well. I like the idea of felhunter's Devour Magic dispelling it, but nothing else. Then a Warlock has to counter a Warlock either with Felhunter or Banish.

January 21, 2005, 01:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Amira_of_Darkspear Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? Yeah exactly. Easy fixes but as it is they arent too useful as of yet. But still I summon one then I die... and when I get back the area is littered with corpses and I see an infernal chasing the remaining force away lol.

January 21, 2005, 02:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kebkin Member	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? How about this tactic: 1) Use a Soulstone on yourself. 2) Send infernal/doomguard into a pack of enemy players. 3) Lifetap your HPs down then Hellfire yourself to death. 4) Infernal/doomguard released from enslavement and wreaks havoc on anyone nearby 5) Rez yourself with the Soulstone.

January 27, 2005, 03:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Freemantle Lurker	Using the infernal/doomguard in pvp? Are you sure that the tapping rule is still true? In a quest in Desolace where you have to invade the burning blade base and smash a crystal to kill a demon inside. After clearing all of the mobs, a shaman jumped in front of me and smashed the stone, tapping the Demon for himself. Peeved, I enslaved the demon and walked him outside and set him on the repops. The shaman was unable to attack him, and eventually the repops mobbed the demon and killed him (the demon left no corpse, just dissapeared). The shaman whined about how I greifed him until I /ignored him and finished the quest for myself. Maybe it was different because he was a quest mob. Oh, and using area demons in PvP is very efficent. There was once in Mannorac Coven that I used an infernal to stomp on a level 38 rogue that was harrasing me and a friend. Fire Shield III is beautiful.