Format to follow, or not? YOU decide

[Smok]

Originally Posted by DrkSnpr14

Some people just aren't as forum savoy as others. Your first forum experience is one of exploration and confusion most likely, and forcing a format on top of that is not so very user friendly to people who have enver seen a forum before

While I agree with this comment to an extent, aren't "formats" used all over the place? Have people never filled in a form? That's all it is really. Copy the format, put your details in the spots marked. Just like filling in a form. Not hard.

THAT said, I also see why some people don't follow it. Ignoring the obvious blind people who can't notice or read a sticky thread, and completely ignoring the people that cry and whinge because their threads aren't approved because their too lazy/stupid/blind to follow the format. There are the genuine threads that begin with a simple question and turn into a 'help' type thread. I know I've done it before... come in with something simple, before you know it, it's 5 paragraphs and 50 questions long.

I voted 'no' because a) I understand those last category threads. And b) Because I don't read the section anymore anyway, so it don't matter to me.

[Akasha]

Interesting. I guess the complaints I get when people's threads aren't approved because they didn't follow the format really are the minority.

An example of this is nathill's posts. See nathill posted a thread under the Talent Builds - Help section with exactly four lines of text. As with other posts that can't follow the format (which I notice most of you are asking for anyway), it was not approved an email was sent out to nathill informating them of this, and a link to the sticky outlining the format.

The reply?

I was legitimately looking for help but fine I'll stay away from your site and find others who can actually help me. It's very big brotherish that a moderator would have to actually approve and dissaprove threads but it's your site and I certainly do not have to return.

** my following comments may upset some of the more, sensitive people **

I lol'd at the email, especially given the recent drama of closed threads. Talk about an over reaction / cry baby response. I simply replied, "If following a format that everyone else can manage to follow is too hard for you. Then yes, I would recommend using another site."

I honestly don't have time for people to cry over something as minor as a thread not being approved and being asked to try again.

This morning, I received the following:

Aklingon...
Thank you for being condescending and not taking the time to actually give my concern/question much thought. You're not upset with me, you are upset at the fact you have to moderate a website.

If following a format that everyone else can manage to follow is too hard for you.
If everyone else could manage the format, you would not have a need to approve or not approve new threads. Follow ups to this email will find their place in my spam box. Elitist jerks are nicer than you! I'll go talk to them.

First of all - upset at the fact I have to moderatoe a website? Bwaahaha, excuse me while I go find my rear end that I just laughed off. Yes, I'm so upset that I have to do this, that I choose to do it over actually playing the game, that I spend every night here doing it, and that I continue to create threads like this seeking members feedback. News flash for you nathill - if I didn't like it, I wouldn't do it. Simple concept hey?

And yes, the threads need to be approved. Why? Well, you're the perfect example really, aren't you? Because people can't read a sticky and can't follow the requirements laid out.

If the requester can't be bothered to follow the format, then why should anyone take the time and effort to reply?

Exactly.

I agree that you want some sort of location people can go to look for the information they have come for, however not everybody has the time to read through 100 pages worth of information between 4 threads associated with the specific topic to sift out the exact data they need.

The advantages of a community like this is the ability have your peers express their experiences and knowledge. Now dont get me wrong, the last thing I want to see is every new topic be "how should I spec and gear" but there has to be some level of tolorance for people who need to ask a direct question and get a direct answer without being given links to 4 threads by a moderator and have their thread locked.

Erm, not sure I'm following. How is reading through one sticky (or two if you have both a gear and a talent question) "reading through 100 pages worth of information"?

I think you're missing the point of the this poll/thread to be honest.

[Anij]

Oh God not this again.

First off, to the Akasha and the Mods. Forums by their very nature, tend to be spur of the moment quick and dirty forms of meda. It's simple, I have a question. I post it on forum x. Hopefully someone with a modicum of intelegence answers my question. Within a day, it's buried under a pile of other threads and soon becomes ancient history. Some threads, however, become great discussions and should be perseverd. Akasha has done an extremely exemplary job of this and we have the best guides for any class on these forums because of it.

The problem with going overboard on "Find your answer in giude XYZ here" to every "new" post is that it contradicts the vary nature of forums. Many of us "old timers" have been playing warlocks for years. There is no such thing as a new post to us. Most of them we can answer before we even open the thread. Do these get old and boring to us? Of course they do, but it doesnt make them any less relevent. Odds are the person is new to being lock and their extent of knowledge about the class is we chain fear, have black colored nukes and we get a sexy minion at level 20 that follows us around and spanks herself. They probably don't even know we get her at level 20. So their questions arn't neccissarly less relevent, it's just old hat..to me. When I started getting this way my response was to just stop answering the threads. I did my time schooling younger noobs to the class, and now it's their turn to school the newest to join the warlock ranks. If you curb people's desire to post too much, all you end up doing is becoming a storehouse for guides. Do you want to be a forum or a library? But it seems to me like you've done a great job of incorporating both.

To the posters
Getting repetitive posts on a forums page is old...very old. More so when you have 5 post stacked on top of one another that all ask the same question. It pushes us experienced players away. We come to forums to find new ideas, when there arn't any, we stop visiting. The worst of these threads, however, are the "Rate my gear/ Is this spec any good?" posts. Every single spec, peice of gear, and stat has mulled over, analized to the 80 bagillionth degree by the best mathmaticians, data coded, plugged into a compurter and worked out on spread sheets, and analized by the brightest minds in the universe. All this has been rounded up and put into some great guides that tell you what the "best" is for just about anything you want to know. When it comes to gear, Canadianpimp even broke down into stupid for you. Yet this is apparently still to complicated for you to get. (May I suggest a less complicated game. Like Pong mabye.) So let me answer ALL rate my gear threads right here.

Is my gear good enough to enter Kara?
No.

Why?
Because it doesn't meet the minimum requirements.

How do you know? You haven't even looked at it.
Because if it did, you wouldn't be asking me if it was good enough.

Well do you have to have the minimum requirements?
No. I walked into Kara with 130 spell damage under the requirement, the level 60 pvp main and off hands, some blues and greens. I out damaged everyone else in the raid including the 6 that were Kara geared and had it on farm.

How did you do that?
Cause i'm ******ing good. Note 6 other players were already Kara geared. Makes it easy when your tank isn't dying every other pull.

/end discussion.

Do I care if there is a format for these types of threads? No. I never read them anyways. But quite frankly if you can't follow the simple format to post you thread, why should I bother posting a reply, your not gonna follow that either. Like someone said in the last thread we had on this ( It was on Monday if I remember right?) These are Akasha's forums. She pays to keep the server going. She puts the man hours into it every week. She allows you to post on it freely and only asks that you follow a few guidlines to make her life easier.

If you don't like it, the WoW forums are this way
<----------------------------------------------------

Have a nice day.

[Akasha]

Oh God not this again.

Not technically again as it's still the overflow from this weeks discussion/complains of closed threads.

So it looks like, at this stage, the format will stay. What I will be doing I think is linking to this thread from the stickies so that people like Nathill can see the request is not coming 100% from me.

[snackereen]

[X] YES

- easier to read
- easier to find (!!) by searching for answers
- (hopefully) avoid questions posted multiple times

To be honest, as far as the info-/guide-pages from these forums go, it is quite hard to find a "new" question, that has not been answered/posted before, so the interest in people browsing the questions for helping decreased a lot (which is not bad, just the way it goes).

Therefore we should force people to pose questions in a given pattern. Why?
a) to stop people expecting an answer for a e.g. #2950: "Is my spec ok?"-thread
...those get closed for good reason
b) it makes the people READ (either the guides, "how to pose a question" or the "what has been posted already"


@ Akasha: maybe you should add a checkbox to the subscription-email which says: "I will read all the help and stickies before posting otherwise my thread gets closed or deleted". That's something you can point-to when a "why was my thread closed" thread starts again ;)

[Pernicious]

Originally Posted by snackereen

@ Akasha: maybe you should add a checkbox to the subscription-email which says: "I will read all the help and stickies before posting otherwise my thread gets closed or deleted". That's something you can point-to when a "why was my thread closed" thread starts again ;)

The problem here is that those very same people that don't read the help and stickies before posting are also the very same people that don't read the little text next to the check box. They read the first five words, "I agree to read all...", click it and move on.

[Darksumone]

Yes Format is Very, Very, Very Needed. I read some of the non Formated posts that you allowed through this weekend and GAH my eyes are still burning and I still dont really understand what they are saying.

The Format makes it easier on everyone!!!!

GROW UP DO IT RIGHT!!!! Or Don't Post/get it Closed!! Plain and Simple.

[Soulzar]

Originally Posted by Akasha

Erm, not sure I'm following. How is reading through one sticky (or two if you have both a gear and a talent question) "reading through 100 pages worth of information"?

I think you're missing the point of the this poll/thread to be honest.

yeah I obviously am. I think Anij said a lot of what I was trying to express in a more formatted paragraph (sorry had to.)

Any official Guides should require formatting. Any threads asking for help should not require any formatting.

I am obviously missing the point. People that create threads without the standard info dont get responces. their threads get pushed off front page and die. those who offer the correct info get a thread that developes into somethign worth reading. thats the natural filter system for forums!

I have been a Den browser for quite some time now, I've offered my experiences to many in the boss threads as well as just general lock questions. One of the main things I liked about this site was the mature atmosphere where people could ask stupid question, but get a real answer and not be flamed ala wow forums style. As of late however, it seems that tolorance for the "stupid" questions is gone, and I've seen more than usual number of these threads closed, last post from a mod with a link to 4 other threads saying "your answer is here."

Running a tight ship is important, but please dont make it such that peopel are afraid to board.

I'm sorry if I've completely missed the whole point of this topic.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Soulzar

I'm sorry if I've completely missed the whole point of this topic.

To be honest, I think you have. This thread isn't about closing or not closing threads, and I beg, plead and grovel it doesn't turn into one.

This topic, if I am following it correctly is purely about requiring a format for the talent build and gear threads. That's it. It's not about closing those threads, but asking us if we want people to follow a format when asking their questions, or not.

I voted no because I don't read them, so don't care.

[Anij]

yeah I obviously am. I think Anij said a lot of what I was trying to express in a more formatted paragraph (sorry had to.)

Any official Guides should require formatting. Any threads asking for help should not require any formatting.

I am obviously missing the point. People that create threads without the standard info dont get responces. their threads get pushed off front page and die. those who offer the correct info get a thread that developes into somethign worth reading. thats the natural filter system for forums!

I have been a Den browser for quite some time now, I've offered my experiences to many in the boss threads as well as just general lock questions. One of the main things I liked about this site was the mature atmosphere where people could ask stupid question, but get a real answer and not be flamed ala wow forums style. As of late however, it seems that tolorance for the "stupid" questions is gone, and I've seen more than usual number of these threads closed, last post from a mod with a link to 4 other threads saying "your answer is here."

Running a tight ship is important, but please dont make it such that peopel are afraid to board.

I'm sorry if I've completely missed the whole point of this topic.

The point is is that Akasha had long time paying suporters of the Den leaving because of it. Granted it was a problem with threads far more ranging than the "rate my...." threads, but that was just one of the answers to the problem. Personally, I don't find issue of it currently because a) I don't read those threads and b) I'm passed the point where I need to worry about it. But Wrath of the Lich King is coming soon and when we start getting to the entry level raiding dungeon, many of us that avoid that section like the plauge may have to pay it a visit. When I do I don't want to see "Iz me gearz goo enuf?" plastered all over it.

The point is, is when people log in and see the 5 most recent posts on the front page all "rate my gear/spec" threads, they log out. They don't go anywhere because since they are the top 5 currents and they're the only one's visible on the front page, they tend to stay there.