Not changing a thing - Final thread

*Akasha* · November 20, 2008, 01:11 AM

Time to put the topic to bed once and for all.

The Site stays Warlock only. Period.
Nothing abouthe site is changing.
We are not expanding out to all classes
We are not inviting Mages in
NOTHING is changing.

I've moved all the threads away because, no matter how many times I said it, people still kept putting in their feelings on expanding and it just kept beating a dead horse, causing those agains it to continue posting their feelings on it, causing more people to respond etc. It was going in circles, pointless circles.

I'm sorry to all the people who did want the site to grow - you can look to all the people that voted the didn't want that to happen. I think we just need to put the topic to bed once and for all. As I said in my last post, the people have spoken so I will not be doing it regardless of my feelings on it.

The Warlocks Den stays Warlock only. Those who aren't Warlocks (which does include me FYI) aren't wanted here, that much has been made clear by votes. Case closed.

I have to say, it's quite disconcerning (and upsetting) to see people, especially a couple of rather long term members stating that if you don't play a Warlock then you don't belong on the site. I'm sad to say, in at least once case it's caused me to lose respect.

I've never hidden the fact I don't play a Warlock anymore... so I guess, in their eyes, I too don't belong here...

So... no more threads or discussion needed, the site will NOT change.

Midnight · November 20, 2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasha

I've never hidden the fact I don't play a Warlock anymore... so I guess, in their eyes, I too don't belong here...

So... wait. Are you leaving?

neej · November 20, 2008, 02:37 AM

I am okay with that, with ANY of your decisions, it's YOUR place after all!
You have to spend time and money and I think you should be as independent as possible in your decisions. If you decide to shutdown tomorrow - that's okay, well probably the supporters want their money back.

But it reminds me how much leaders must be deaf to a certain extent. I really doubt someone would have acted like they expressed in their postings. People always claim to cancel accounts at the official forums and rarely do. The reason is simple: People are afraid of change. Leadership means taking away fear from people by deciding instead of them. Democracy means those who dare will decide, not everyone all the time. The decision will not be "better" but at least *some* decision will be made.

Anyway, I sometimes do not enjoy postings that sound like "I will be dropping my Warlock" or threads like "Will you play your warlock in Wrath of the Lich King" in a Warlock-specific forum. There is no reason though to overreact like too many people did here.

Imagine if WoW would have been created based on votes...

I would like to see changes in any way for this place for sure. Change is good (hehe, I sound like Obama).

Take care, and be bold.

neej

Weeba · November 20, 2008, 02:43 AM

Quote:

People always claim to cancel accounts at the official forums and rarely do. The reason is simple: People are afraid of change.

Bingo! And you have to ask yourself, even if all those people did leave, how many more would take their place? We lose 20 - 50 Warlocks, but gain 500 - 1000 Mages? I know which group I'd be leaning towards.

I for one am personally saddened that there was such an adversion to enhancing the site, either by moving to an all DPS site (although I do understand that one) or by opening a side section for Mages or DK alts (which I didn't really understand). With vBulletin, you can create a whole section of forums that don't even appear on the front page, and aren't visible unless you request to join a usergroup that allows you to view them. I know, my guild has that set up with the leader forums. Unless you're apart of the 'leader group' you're not even aware that they're there. So really, people just didn't want growth for the site by allowing others to use a section they wouldn't even know about.

Websites grow. Which way they grow is the question. They can grow up and continue to flourish. Or they grow backwards, deplete and eventually become wastelands on the internet. I know which way I would rather see this site go, I'm surprised so many others wished the opposite.

Khaf · November 20, 2008, 02:50 AM

So wait, just to be clear, because I really want to understand this. The site will not change?

neej · November 20, 2008, 02:51 AM

I also bothered that people do not know about the effort and the financial aspects of running a web site. Increasing an audience is an important step.

Akasha, you might consider creating the DPS site as a whole seperate secondary project (in disguise :-) ) and leave the Den like it is (as many people do not want any changes in terms of classes) and let's see how many will get dragged over to the DPS site.

*Akasha* · November 20, 2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight

So... wait. Are you leaving?

LOL 12 people don't kick me off my own site. No, I'm not leaving. They can either accept the fact I am here and not currently playing a Warlock, or they can leave.

@neej's post.
Yes I agree pretty much. Both in the 'I'd leave the forum' cries, as well as needing to have selective hearing in regards to some aspects. That said, I've always liked to think that members here feel like it's their home too, and what they feel matters. Even though, yes, I do want a change - I've been running this site as it is for almost 5 years, something new would be nice - I'll put that aside due to the overwhelming 'no' votes.

Whether or not I then create a DPS site, or even a Mage site since they are lacking so much, and do it completely separately from The Den I have not yet decided. But I also have not yet dismissed it.

Quote:

With vBulletin, you can create a whole section of forums that don't even appear on the front page, and aren't visible unless you request to join a usergroup that allows you to view them. I know, my guild has that set up with the leader forums. Unless you're apart of the 'leader group' you're not even aware that they're there.

That's exactly how I was planning on doing it if it went ahead yes.

Lokee · November 20, 2008, 03:21 AM

Not sure how many old EQ players lurke this forum, but there was a caster site I used to frequent called The Graffe (Graffë Forums) When EQ2 and WoW came out, they put expansions on their forum for members to discuss those games. Completely seperate from the original forums, yet produced by the same forum. Basically like what was described above except you didn't need to join a user group (they didn't have a need to 'hide' it from members).

When you looked at the original forum, you couldn't even see them. But along the top they added images that took you to the 'new' sections. Sort of like if you clicked Discussion Forums - The Warlocks Den Forums and then clicked General - The Warlocks Den Forums
Both of them bring up different results. That's what The Graffe did. One click brought up EQ2 sections, another click brought up WoW sections.

The best part is that with vBulletin, you can set a 'theme' by section. Meaning you could could have two separate themes for two separate sections, making them look like two completely different sites.. yet they are one forum.

Means one registration, yet access multiple areas. Means Warlocks have their area, Mages (or whoever) have their area. No need for either class to mix together at all.

phantasmas · November 20, 2008, 03:25 AM

I must admit i am a little sad that there will not be a DK spot tucked away but nevermind i came here as a warlock and i will stay here as a warlock even if it isn't my main anymore, sad to feel that people think if it isn't your main anymore you do not belong here, i thought we were above that.
However you are doing a great job Akasha and i support whatever move you make as it is always for the good of us and the site

*Akasha* · November 20, 2008, 04:14 AM

@Lokee
That's how I was planning on doing it here. I too used to use The Graffe and had them in the back of my head when picturing it.

@phantasmas
I will probably still provide a place for DK alts to chat since there were more 'yes' than 'no' on that poll. 118 members want the section, 35 said preffered no (with 12 being adamant no's). Since you won't see it unless you choose to, then 118 beats 12.

*** Information added 45 Minutes and 54 Seconds later... ***

And no, this is not a discussion on if we will be adding another class / another section to the site.

November 20, 2008, 02:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
neej Member	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread I am okay with that, with ANY of your decisions, it's YOUR place after all! You have to spend time and money and I think you should be as independent as possible in your decisions. If you decide to shutdown tomorrow - that's okay, well probably the supporters want their money back. But it reminds me how much leaders must be deaf to a certain extent. I really doubt someone would have acted like they expressed in their postings. People always claim to cancel accounts at the official forums and rarely do. The reason is simple: People are afraid of change. Leadership means taking away fear from people by deciding instead of them. Democracy means those who dare will decide, not everyone all the time. The decision will not be "better" but at least some decision will be made. Anyway, I sometimes do not enjoy postings that sound like "I will be dropping my Warlock" or threads like "Will you play your warlock in Wrath of the Lich King" in a Warlock-specific forum. There is no reason though to overreact like too many people did here. Imagine if WoW would have been created based on votes... I would like to see changes in any way for this place for sure. Change is good (hehe, I sound like Obama). Take care, and be bold. neej

November 20, 2008, 02:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Khaf Member Character Info Khaf 70 Blood Elf Warlock Uldaman US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 9/41/11	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread So wait, just to be clear, because I really want to understand this. The site will not change?

November 20, 2008, 02:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
neej Member	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread I also bothered that people do not know about the effort and the financial aspects of running a web site. Increasing an audience is an important step. Akasha, you might consider creating the DPS site as a whole seperate secondary project (in disguise :-) ) and leave the Den like it is (as many people do not want any changes in terms of classes) and let's see how many will get dragged over to the DPS site.

November 20, 2008, 03:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lokee Member	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread Not sure how many old EQ players lurke this forum, but there was a caster site I used to frequent called The Graffe (Graffë Forums) When EQ2 and WoW came out, they put expansions on their forum for members to discuss those games. Completely seperate from the original forums, yet produced by the same forum. Basically like what was described above except you didn't need to join a user group (they didn't have a need to 'hide' it from members). When you looked at the original forum, you couldn't even see them. But along the top they added images that took you to the 'new' sections. Sort of like if you clicked Discussion Forums - The Warlocks Den Forums and then clicked General - The Warlocks Den Forums Both of them bring up different results. That's what The Graffe did. One click brought up EQ2 sections, another click brought up WoW sections. The best part is that with vBulletin, you can set a 'theme' by section. Meaning you could could have two separate themes for two separate sections, making them look like two completely different sites.. yet they are one forum. Means one registration, yet access multiple areas. Means Warlocks have their area, Mages (or whoever) have their area. No need for either class to mix together at all.

November 20, 2008, 03:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
phantasmas Death on swift wings Character Info goldmoon 70 Tauren Death Knight chamber of aspects Euro PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread I must admit i am a little sad that there will not be a DK spot tucked away but nevermind i came here as a warlock and i will stay here as a warlock even if it isn't my main anymore, sad to feel that people think if it isn't your main anymore you do not belong here, i thought we were above that. However you are doing a great job Akasha and i support whatever move you make as it is always for the good of us and the site

November 20, 2008, 01:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
Akasha	Not changing a thing - Final thread Time to put the topic to bed once and for all. The Site stays Warlock only. Period. Nothing abouthe site is changing. We are not expanding out to all classes We are not inviting Mages in NOTHING is changing. I've moved all the threads away because, no matter how many times I said it, people still kept putting in their feelings on expanding and it just kept beating a dead horse, causing those agains it to continue posting their feelings on it, causing more people to respond etc. It was going in circles, pointless circles. I'm sorry to all the people who did want the site to grow - you can look to all the people that voted the didn't want that to happen. I think we just need to put the topic to bed once and for all. As I said in my last post, the people have spoken so I will not be doing it regardless of my feelings on it. The Warlocks Den stays Warlock only. Those who aren't Warlocks (which does include me FYI) aren't wanted here, that much has been made clear by votes. Case closed. I have to say, it's quite disconcerning (and upsetting) to see people, especially a couple of rather long term members stating that if you don't play a Warlock then you don't belong on the site. I'm sad to say, in at least once case it's caused me to lose respect. I've never hidden the fact I don't play a Warlock anymore... so I guess, in their eyes, I too don't belong here... So... no more threads or discussion needed, the site will NOT change.

November 20, 2008, 04:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
Akasha	Re: Not changing a thing - Final thread @Lokee That's how I was planning on doing it here. I too used to use The Graffe and had them in the back of my head when picturing it. @phantasmas I will probably still provide a place for DK alts to chat since there were more 'yes' than 'no' on that poll. 118 members want the section, 35 said preffered no (with 12 being adamant no's). Since you won't see it unless you choose to, then 118 beats 12. * Information added 45 Minutes and 54 Seconds later... * And no, this is not a discussion on if we will be adding another class / another section to the site.