How women are treated as gamers - Page 11

Blim · September 12, 2007, 03:27 AM

I joined this guild about a week ago and the the first few days of chat where so bad "teamspeak" <Leader> A girl wants to join the guilds shes a paladin <Officer> We don't need girls in this guild tbh <Leader> Pfft tell her she can't join we already got enough paladins (not got one 7 members in the guild...) 2 days later, <Me> my girl friend wants to join <Leader> Name <Me> Arawine, <Leader> Invites

Never heard a joke about females since

they seem to love her

Locknload · September 21, 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beelzebuub

And if you wonder how WoW girls look like

http://community.livejournal.com/wow_ladies/512415.html

^dayum!

Sharina · September 22, 2007, 09:46 AM

As a female gamer I have to say I have a lot of good and bad experiences. Unfortunately to me the bad experiences are enough to outweigh the good.

I think there are 2 types of female gamers. The ones who are seeking the attention, and the ones who are not. I am of the latter group. I want to log in, play the game in peace, and log off. I don't want drama, I don't want cat fights and avoid talking to people who stir up trouble. I just want to log in, have some fun, and log out.

The sad thing is that with ventrilo/teamspeak it is very difficult to hide the fact that you are female.

One might ask why I would want to hide my gender. The answer is simply:
CREEPY STALKER INTERNET GUYS

I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but it's true.

I think the worst time was once when I was up early at about 5 am on the weekend, there were only 5 or 6 people online in the guild. (I am in a big raiding guild.) I got a tell from a guy who was asking me if an officer was online. He was asking for a guild invite because he was friends IRL with one of our members.

I explained to him that most of the guild was asleep (we tend to have a lot of nocturnal players - college aged crowd) and that he should wait a few hours and an officer would be online. Then he proceeded to say "okay thanks, my name is so and so, M, from Georgia.... what's your name?"

All I could say is "I'm Sharina" (my toon's name). I just don't dig the whole a/s/l thing. Also I don't operate on a first name basis in the game. (First name as in your REAL first name). Needless to say I found out later this person was "asking around" about all the females in our guild. He wanted to see who was "available" and how many girls were in the guild. I heard from some of the other girls that he basically came off as downright creepy in his..."approach" to conversation. They all thought he was an utter dip$hit. I avoided him like the plague. Thank god for ignore list.

The other bad experience (surprisingly I haven't left the guild in over 2 years...) is the demand for real life pictures. Once the guys find out you are female through ventrilo, they immediately demand pictures. From my perspective, I consider everyone online just a blip on the screen. You know, it's just some person on the internet who plays the game. I don't look too much into things except for my own characters etc. Basically I don't care about what other people look like, or what they do, or anything. If they are polite people, I game with them. Other than that, I feel like anything beyond that is none of my business.

I do not "demand" to see the guys' pics. However, the guys' feel like they have the right to demand and harass a girl into putting her picture up.

The demand for the picture became increasingly hostile to the point of harassment. Girls usually either give in, don't give in, or some even resort to posting fake pictures to get people to shut up.

Many of the guys are younger (below age 25) and frankly, overly ****y and misogynistic. There is a sense of entitlement when it comes to them judging women, so they demand a sort of beauty contest type scenario to take place.

As for the women... I genuinely believe that some women who I have had the displeasure of gaming with take advantage of gullible men, and thrive on the attention. I think this is a sad thing because it seems to lead to the misogyny being fueled. From what guys have said openly, they lack respect for the women who use being female for their own agendas -- be it seeking guild leadership or guild power, getting whatever they want, even securing raid spots without going through the proper channels.

I have witnessed people being ousted because so and so's e-girlfriend had to be a part of something, people outright giving away free items and so on.

To me I feel uncomfortable taking freebies because I know how much time and effort goes into securing items or gold or what have you. I work hard and I play hard, so I don't understand how some men can so freely give away something that equates with their time.

Time to me is one of the most valuable things in life and I don't believe it is something you can just give up for anyone or anything. I do however believe in trade (eg I help you work on something, you help me work on something) types of deals.

I've actually begun to tell people that my name is Frank, M, 45 year old truck driver from Michigan. Some people buy it and not surprisingly back off. Why I don't want the attention is pretty simple. Number 1, creepiness is a HUGE turn off, and number 2, I just want to play the game in peace.

Life is hard enough as it is irl dealing with all sorts of weird people, advances, and general weirdness -- why would someone want to pay for a game where they are hassled by a bunch of immature a-holes who clearly need to get laid more??? Basically it's like RL - particularly for the younger women. We already deal with guys like this all the time irl so it seems like an unnecessary hassle to have to deal with it over "teh interwebs".

I also am concerned about the types of women who seem to seek attention for some sort of reassurance. It makes me think they are lacking in self esteem and have mental issues.

The other thing that I think is horrible, are the girls who manipulate the guys and lie about who and what they are in order to accomplish or obtain something.

There was a well known warrior on our server who was in an e-relationship with a girl and the whole thing got blown server wide. Somehow he got her address and went to her house. This person wasn't a killer or anything like that. He genuinely "liked" the girl. Unfortunately for him, she totally lied to him about who and what she was. Apparently he told a few people (word travels fast) that she sent him photos, but the photos were of her when she was like 15. This girl was at least 21 or something along those lines.

When he went to her house, he discovered she didn't look like the photos anymore and was hugely obese and had lied to him about her appearance. He left guilds where he main tanked to "follow" her whenever she didn't get a raid spot. It was known that their relationship consisted of him doing things for her and whatnot. When the news of their fallout got out, she immediately transferred servers and had her character named changed so she could hide.

I feel sorry for her, but I also lack respect for that kind of behavior. It just amounts to a lot of bad karma imo.

Because of this, many of the guys on our server have generally negative attitudes toward the female gamers. As a result of that, they don't give us even the most basic sense of respect or civility. One bad girl ruins it for all of us. Guild princesses, insane cat fights that tear up guild structures, people leaving servers over stuff... it is ridiculous.

I kind of wish ventrilo didn't exist because then none of this would have a "vehicle" for taking place. As for how I deal with it, basically if someone isn't civil or is too creepy, I try to ignore them. My recreational time is too valuable to waste on antics.

Illqqmore · September 22, 2007, 10:46 AM

I am a boy myself, but I have met some female gamers. I might treat them a little different in the way I talk to them... (not beginning about who I shagged earlier etc. etc.

). But nothing besides that. I dont know why, but alot of male players seem to think they might get a date when they send gold and items to a female player

. I also think they are the boys with no experiance with women, else they wouldn't act like they've never met one in real life

.
A dude once thought I was a girl (no idea why

) and send me some stuff, began talking to me the second I came online and when he asked me if I was a girl and I said no, I got on his ignore list...

It's just the way men are made, nothing you can do about it.
Mostly it are the men who have no experiance with ''real'' women outside a game though.

Chersis · September 22, 2007, 11:17 AM

I'm a gamer-girl, always have been. I'm the one who got my husband hooked on WoW. He actually brought home a demo disk from one of our RL friends ages ago and I told him "no absolutely no pay-to-play games ever." but then he got it set up and I created my first toon and I was hooked. Then he created his own toon and he was hooked. We play together and separately and enjoy our time playing. He's a bit more hooked on it than I am but I have a 20 month old to chase around most of the time so my playing-time has been reduced to when she's sleeping.

That being said i don't think I've ever been treated differently, except maybe ages ago early on. I have an alt tauren druid female (who i haven't played in ages) and my husband has a tauren shaman. I remember we grouped with a few RL friends and then some random stranger and the random stranger kept hitting on my toon. Literally hitting on my toon. My husband and friends thought it was funny, I on the other hand was quite annoyed. That was ages ago though and since I don't play as much now, and because when I do play I pretty much just solo, I don't have any problems.

I like playing video games and have since I was a kid. I don't expect special treatment (except maybe from my husband......but that's because he's supposed to be biased....

) and frankly don't want it. I play with my husband and his/our friends who all happen to be guys. Most are married and a few aren't. I try to remind my husband that he's lucky he has a wife who likes to play and doesn't nag him about his playing time. (hey i'm guilty of it too!) Esp. since one of our RL friends has to schedule his playtime and Ok it with his wife b/c his wife doesn't like that he plays.

Maltyrius · September 22, 2007, 10:33 PM

If you are in a guild where the leadership allows members to demand pics of female members then leave. Yesterday.

No quality guild tolerates that regardless of being progression focused or casual. Hell, if it's that bad, come to Khaz Modan and join Ice Nine - lot of couples; lot of older corporate types; lot of intolerance for BS. Most of us are retired hard-core raiders that needed a RL check.

/plug over

Sharina · September 22, 2007, 11:50 PM

Well I just reread my cynical novel and thought maybe I'd clarify.

I've been on my server since day 1, and in the same raiding guild for over 2 years now. Prior to this guild, I was in a small guild of maybe 10 people tops. After joining the larger guild, I kind of felt like there was this whole sordid world of drama that I had no idea existed. Some of the girls in the guild seem to cause it through some ridiculous behavior, while most of them simply play the game and are friendly. The guys vary between varying degrees of politeness and age groups.

Basically being in 1 guild for so long, I've seen anything and everything that could happen. We have had people come and go, the raid structure has fluctuated, people have been rude which caused other people to leave, and so on.

As for the picture thing... ironically I play the game with my boyfriend and the guys in the guild who "demand" pictures are basically not so much leadership at all. They are just known as the rude ones in the guild. (Every large group of people has that small group of retards.) None of them are kicked because they are great players (skill minus a good personality I guess). Leadership does not really agree with their behavior, but I've never seen a public reprimand. Our guild is fortunate that we have women who know how to bite back and basically tell them to stfu, but that doesn't really stop them. Boys will be boys I guess. Some of these guys are old enough to be men though, so it's sad.

My boyfriend thinks these guys are dip$hits, but we basically decided to put up pictures so people would just shut their traps. HE actually was the one to post our/my pictures which was his way of trying to neutralize the immaturity. It worked. I guess no one really wanted to be rude to the boyfriend --- they thought it was okay to be rude to me though since I'm female. Overall reaction was positive from the rest of the guild.

I think I hold people's manners to a higher standard because my parents are immigrants so they raised my brother and me the old world way. Generally you are polite to someone and if you cannot be, you say nothing. I'm 25, my brother is 27, and I've yet to see him behave as rude as some of the guys I've run into in the guild or on my server.

The internet basically makes people think their behavior doesn't matter. What men seem to forget is that on the internet, women only have your behavior to judge you by. Your looks, your flashy car, your "money", or your clothes, are not on the internet. The only thing we have to consider is your behavior. So many guys just fail to see this and basically get themselves despised for it by the women.

I noticed someone posted about how some women do not "accept" computer gaming or online gaming as a normal hobby. I think the key thing here is exposure. Me personally... I find it actually abnormal if I meet a guy who does not game in some way - be it console, computer, card, or tabletop. Having an older brother helps tremendously. In fact, I credit him for giving me an open mind about this hobby. I was the little sister who always wanted to do what he did, wanted to be involved with his friends. Yes annoying, but over the years he and I had little competitions with our old nintendo and things like that. I then noticed that most of my male peers like to game in some shape or form, so to me it's always been "the thing guys do" and just normal or acceptable.

I've met many women who find gaming unacceptable and the majority of them simply have never tried it, or they do not know anyone who does except for maybe their boyfriend or husband and they are constantly trying to get these people to quit. While I can understand the need for quality time (one should not play too much), at the same time I feel like it's akin to changing the man. If a man likes to go fishing, who am I to deny him his right to go fishing?

I've actually used that analogy before with women who hate gamers and gaming in general, and they always shut up because they realize they do not have a fair reason for disliking their man's hobby. They simply just don't like what they do not understand, yet they choose to marry men who have a hobby they don't understand and subsequently don't like, and expect him to give it up begrudgingly. There is a lot of dysfunction all around.

As for the good experiences.. some of my best friends in the game are other women and some of the best players I know are other women. I guess the real truth is that there's always going to be a-holes and e-whores. It's just a matter of wading through them and there are plenty of nice people who you can game with in peace.

beelzebuub · September 25, 2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

I then noticed that most of my male peers like to game in some shape or form, so to me it's always been "the thing guys do" and just normal or acceptable.

Love this phrase.
I tried them all. From tabletop to pixels and outdoor. My wife just does not dig.

Something to lighten up the Zaboo experience.
Watch nr3. (unfortunately the last one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grCTXGW3sxQ

thoroly · September 25, 2007, 07:38 AM

Well, I am proud to say as a guy, my wife plays a mage. In our guild we have 3 ladies i know of. One of course is my wife, one a holy pally, and one a warrior. Our warrior who prot spec simply is the best one we have. She is able to hold aggro with level 70 including my wifes fire mage. It is not a matter of gender, it is a matter of ability and knowledge of your class that makes a good player.

Devicus · September 25, 2007, 12:26 PM

In the end any guild's issues always come back to immature people. I stand by this, whatever I see, whether it's the women or guys, catfights or harassment. Women do get treated differently but this is down to immature specimens of both genders. I've heard far worse stories of female behavior than the warrior and his liarfiend (actually could well be that warrior's story but with more detail), as well as guys who have plumbed the very depths of stupidity, immaturity, selfishness and hurtfulness. And even just immature, misplaced pride. And innocent parties on both sides get annoyed by it. It's humanity in general, swings and roundabouts but not in a fair way.

Applies outside gaming too.

September 12, 2007, 03:27 AM	#101 (permalink)
Blim Lurker Character Info Blim 29 Human Warlock Shattared Halls Euro PvP Guild: Time for a Change	Re: How women are treated as gamers I joined this guild about a week ago and the the first few days of chat where so bad "teamspeak" <Leader> A girl wants to join the guilds shes a paladin <Officer> We don't need girls in this guild tbh <Leader> Pfft tell her she can't join we already got enough paladins (not got one 7 members in the guild...) 2 days later, <Me> my girl friend wants to join <Leader> Name <Me> Arawine, <Leader> Invites Never heard a joke about females since they seem to love her

September 22, 2007, 09:46 AM	#103 (permalink)
Sharina Lurker Character Info Sharina 70 Gnome Warlock Azgalor US PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: How women are treated as gamers As a female gamer I have to say I have a lot of good and bad experiences. Unfortunately to me the bad experiences are enough to outweigh the good. I think there are 2 types of female gamers. The ones who are seeking the attention, and the ones who are not. I am of the latter group. I want to log in, play the game in peace, and log off. I don't want drama, I don't want cat fights and avoid talking to people who stir up trouble. I just want to log in, have some fun, and log out. The sad thing is that with ventrilo/teamspeak it is very difficult to hide the fact that you are female. One might ask why I would want to hide my gender. The answer is simply: CREEPY STALKER INTERNET GUYS I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but it's true. I think the worst time was once when I was up early at about 5 am on the weekend, there were only 5 or 6 people online in the guild. (I am in a big raiding guild.) I got a tell from a guy who was asking me if an officer was online. He was asking for a guild invite because he was friends IRL with one of our members. I explained to him that most of the guild was asleep (we tend to have a lot of nocturnal players - college aged crowd) and that he should wait a few hours and an officer would be online. Then he proceeded to say "okay thanks, my name is so and so, M, from Georgia.... what's your name?" All I could say is "I'm Sharina" (my toon's name). I just don't dig the whole a/s/l thing. Also I don't operate on a first name basis in the game. (First name as in your REAL first name). Needless to say I found out later this person was "asking around" about all the females in our guild. He wanted to see who was "available" and how many girls were in the guild. I heard from some of the other girls that he basically came off as downright creepy in his..."approach" to conversation. They all thought he was an utter dip$hit. I avoided him like the plague. Thank god for ignore list. The other bad experience (surprisingly I haven't left the guild in over 2 years...) is the demand for real life pictures. Once the guys find out you are female through ventrilo, they immediately demand pictures. From my perspective, I consider everyone online just a blip on the screen. You know, it's just some person on the internet who plays the game. I don't look too much into things except for my own characters etc. Basically I don't care about what other people look like, or what they do, or anything. If they are polite people, I game with them. Other than that, I feel like anything beyond that is none of my business. I do not "demand" to see the guys' pics. However, the guys' feel like they have the right to demand and harass a girl into putting her picture up. The demand for the picture became increasingly hostile to the point of harassment. Girls usually either give in, don't give in, or some even resort to posting fake pictures to get people to shut up. Many of the guys are younger (below age 25) and frankly, overly ****y and misogynistic. There is a sense of entitlement when it comes to them judging women, so they demand a sort of beauty contest type scenario to take place. As for the women... I genuinely believe that some women who I have had the displeasure of gaming with take advantage of gullible men, and thrive on the attention. I think this is a sad thing because it seems to lead to the misogyny being fueled. From what guys have said openly, they lack respect for the women who use being female for their own agendas -- be it seeking guild leadership or guild power, getting whatever they want, even securing raid spots without going through the proper channels. I have witnessed people being ousted because so and so's e-girlfriend had to be a part of something, people outright giving away free items and so on. To me I feel uncomfortable taking freebies because I know how much time and effort goes into securing items or gold or what have you. I work hard and I play hard, so I don't understand how some men can so freely give away something that equates with their time. Time to me is one of the most valuable things in life and I don't believe it is something you can just give up for anyone or anything. I do however believe in trade (eg I help you work on something, you help me work on something) types of deals. I've actually begun to tell people that my name is Frank, M, 45 year old truck driver from Michigan. Some people buy it and not surprisingly back off. Why I don't want the attention is pretty simple. Number 1, creepiness is a HUGE turn off, and number 2, I just want to play the game in peace. Life is hard enough as it is irl dealing with all sorts of weird people, advances, and general weirdness -- why would someone want to pay for a game where they are hassled by a bunch of immature a-holes who clearly need to get laid more??? Basically it's like RL - particularly for the younger women. We already deal with guys like this all the time irl so it seems like an unnecessary hassle to have to deal with it over "teh interwebs". I also am concerned about the types of women who seem to seek attention for some sort of reassurance. It makes me think they are lacking in self esteem and have mental issues. The other thing that I think is horrible, are the girls who manipulate the guys and lie about who and what they are in order to accomplish or obtain something. There was a well known warrior on our server who was in an e-relationship with a girl and the whole thing got blown server wide. Somehow he got her address and went to her house. This person wasn't a killer or anything like that. He genuinely "liked" the girl. Unfortunately for him, she totally lied to him about who and what she was. Apparently he told a few people (word travels fast) that she sent him photos, but the photos were of her when she was like 15. This girl was at least 21 or something along those lines. When he went to her house, he discovered she didn't look like the photos anymore and was hugely obese and had lied to him about her appearance. He left guilds where he main tanked to "follow" her whenever she didn't get a raid spot. It was known that their relationship consisted of him doing things for her and whatnot. When the news of their fallout got out, she immediately transferred servers and had her character named changed so she could hide. I feel sorry for her, but I also lack respect for that kind of behavior. It just amounts to a lot of bad karma imo. Because of this, many of the guys on our server have generally negative attitudes toward the female gamers. As a result of that, they don't give us even the most basic sense of respect or civility. One bad girl ruins it for all of us. Guild princesses, insane cat fights that tear up guild structures, people leaving servers over stuff... it is ridiculous. I kind of wish ventrilo didn't exist because then none of this would have a "vehicle" for taking place. As for how I deal with it, basically if someone isn't civil or is too creepy, I try to ignore them. My recreational time is too valuable to waste on antics.

September 22, 2007, 10:46 AM	#104 (permalink)
Illqqmore Member Character Info Illqqmore 70 Undead Warlock Lightning's Blade Euro PvP Guild: Unaffected Talent Spec: 7/7/47	Re: How women are treated as gamers I am a boy myself, but I have met some female gamers. I might treat them a little different in the way I talk to them... (not beginning about who I shagged earlier etc. etc. ). But nothing besides that. I dont know why, but alot of male players seem to think they might get a date when they send gold and items to a female player . I also think they are the boys with no experiance with women, else they wouldn't act like they've never met one in real life. A dude once thought I was a girl (no idea why ) and send me some stuff, began talking to me the second I came online and when he asked me if I was a girl and I said no, I got on his ignore list... It's just the way men are made, nothing you can do about it. Mostly it are the men who have no experiance with ''real'' women outside a game though. Last edited by Illqqmore; September 22, 2007 at 10:51 AM..

September 22, 2007, 11:17 AM	#105 (permalink)
Chersis Registered Character Info Chersis 70 Blood Elf Warlock Shadowsong US PvE Guild: Legionnaires of Under Talent Spec: 0/17/44	Re: How women are treated as gamers I'm a gamer-girl, always have been. I'm the one who got my husband hooked on WoW. He actually brought home a demo disk from one of our RL friends ages ago and I told him "no absolutely no pay-to-play games ever." but then he got it set up and I created my first toon and I was hooked. Then he created his own toon and he was hooked. We play together and separately and enjoy our time playing. He's a bit more hooked on it than I am but I have a 20 month old to chase around most of the time so my playing-time has been reduced to when she's sleeping. That being said i don't think I've ever been treated differently, except maybe ages ago early on. I have an alt tauren druid female (who i haven't played in ages) and my husband has a tauren shaman. I remember we grouped with a few RL friends and then some random stranger and the random stranger kept hitting on my toon. Literally hitting on my toon. My husband and friends thought it was funny, I on the other hand was quite annoyed. That was ages ago though and since I don't play as much now, and because when I do play I pretty much just solo, I don't have any problems. I like playing video games and have since I was a kid. I don't expect special treatment (except maybe from my husband......but that's because he's supposed to be biased.... ) and frankly don't want it. I play with my husband and his/our friends who all happen to be guys. Most are married and a few aren't. I try to remind my husband that he's lucky he has a wife who likes to play and doesn't nag him about his playing time. (hey i'm guilty of it too!) Esp. since one of our RL friends has to schedule his playtime and Ok it with his wife b/c his wife doesn't like that he plays.

September 22, 2007, 10:33 PM	#106 (permalink)
Maltyrius Subscriber Character Info Lôkhan 80 Blood Elf Hunter Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Apotheosis Talent Spec: 7/53/11	Re: How women are treated as gamers If you are in a guild where the leadership allows members to demand pics of female members then leave. Yesterday. No quality guild tolerates that regardless of being progression focused or casual. Hell, if it's that bad, come to Khaz Modan and join Ice Nine - lot of couples; lot of older corporate types; lot of intolerance for BS. Most of us are retired hard-core raiders that needed a RL check. /plug over

September 22, 2007, 11:50 PM	#107 (permalink)
Sharina Lurker Character Info Sharina 70 Gnome Warlock Azgalor US PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: How women are treated as gamers Well I just reread my cynical novel and thought maybe I'd clarify. I've been on my server since day 1, and in the same raiding guild for over 2 years now. Prior to this guild, I was in a small guild of maybe 10 people tops. After joining the larger guild, I kind of felt like there was this whole sordid world of drama that I had no idea existed. Some of the girls in the guild seem to cause it through some ridiculous behavior, while most of them simply play the game and are friendly. The guys vary between varying degrees of politeness and age groups. Basically being in 1 guild for so long, I've seen anything and everything that could happen. We have had people come and go, the raid structure has fluctuated, people have been rude which caused other people to leave, and so on. As for the picture thing... ironically I play the game with my boyfriend and the guys in the guild who "demand" pictures are basically not so much leadership at all. They are just known as the rude ones in the guild. (Every large group of people has that small group of retards.) None of them are kicked because they are great players (skill minus a good personality I guess). Leadership does not really agree with their behavior, but I've never seen a public reprimand. Our guild is fortunate that we have women who know how to bite back and basically tell them to stfu, but that doesn't really stop them. Boys will be boys I guess. Some of these guys are old enough to be men though, so it's sad. My boyfriend thinks these guys are dip$hits, but we basically decided to put up pictures so people would just shut their traps. HE actually was the one to post our/my pictures which was his way of trying to neutralize the immaturity. It worked. I guess no one really wanted to be rude to the boyfriend --- they thought it was okay to be rude to me though since I'm female. Overall reaction was positive from the rest of the guild. I think I hold people's manners to a higher standard because my parents are immigrants so they raised my brother and me the old world way. Generally you are polite to someone and if you cannot be, you say nothing. I'm 25, my brother is 27, and I've yet to see him behave as rude as some of the guys I've run into in the guild or on my server. The internet basically makes people think their behavior doesn't matter. What men seem to forget is that on the internet, women only have your behavior to judge you by. Your looks, your flashy car, your "money", or your clothes, are not on the internet. The only thing we have to consider is your behavior. So many guys just fail to see this and basically get themselves despised for it by the women. I noticed someone posted about how some women do not "accept" computer gaming or online gaming as a normal hobby. I think the key thing here is exposure. Me personally... I find it actually abnormal if I meet a guy who does not game in some way - be it console, computer, card, or tabletop. Having an older brother helps tremendously. In fact, I credit him for giving me an open mind about this hobby. I was the little sister who always wanted to do what he did, wanted to be involved with his friends. Yes annoying, but over the years he and I had little competitions with our old nintendo and things like that. I then noticed that most of my male peers like to game in some shape or form, so to me it's always been "the thing guys do" and just normal or acceptable. I've met many women who find gaming unacceptable and the majority of them simply have never tried it, or they do not know anyone who does except for maybe their boyfriend or husband and they are constantly trying to get these people to quit. While I can understand the need for quality time (one should not play too much), at the same time I feel like it's akin to changing the man. If a man likes to go fishing, who am I to deny him his right to go fishing? I've actually used that analogy before with women who hate gamers and gaming in general, and they always shut up because they realize they do not have a fair reason for disliking their man's hobby. They simply just don't like what they do not understand, yet they choose to marry men who have a hobby they don't understand and subsequently don't like, and expect him to give it up begrudgingly. There is a lot of dysfunction all around. As for the good experiences.. some of my best friends in the game are other women and some of the best players I know are other women. I guess the real truth is that there's always going to be a-holes and e-whores. It's just a matter of wading through them and there are plenty of nice people who you can game with in peace.

September 25, 2007, 07:38 AM	#109 (permalink)
thoroly Member Character Info Thoroly 70 Human Warlock Norgannon US PvE Guild: Purification Talent Spec: 41//0/20	Re: How women are treated as gamers Well, I am proud to say as a guy, my wife plays a mage. In our guild we have 3 ladies i know of. One of course is my wife, one a holy pally, and one a warrior. Our warrior who prot spec simply is the best one we have. She is able to hold aggro with level 70 including my wifes fire mage. It is not a matter of gender, it is a matter of ability and knowledge of your class that makes a good player.

September 25, 2007, 12:26 PM	#110 (permalink)
Devicus Member Character Info Devicus 80 Gnome Warlock thunderhorn Euro PvE Guild: Ultra Cohesion Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: How women are treated as gamers In the end any guild's issues always come back to immature people. I stand by this, whatever I see, whether it's the women or guys, catfights or harassment. Women do get treated differently but this is down to immature specimens of both genders. I've heard far worse stories of female behavior than the warrior and his liarfiend (actually could well be that warrior's story but with more detail), as well as guys who have plumbed the very depths of stupidity, immaturity, selfishness and hurtfulness. And even just immature, misplaced pride. And innocent parties on both sides get annoyed by it. It's humanity in general, swings and roundabouts but not in a fair way. Applies outside gaming too.