The Most Helpless Feeling in the World...

[Carlinda]

Thank you for all of your replies and support and helpful suggestions. As of this morning, Blizzard has re-instated all of my boyfriend's gear, though the situation is still under investigation. And I found out (after he was able to go through all of his toons and take inventory) the only major losses were his elemental shaman gear. His tier gear, offsets, and pvp gear were all still in tact. His 70 warrior, who was in pvp gear, didn't lose a thing. A few things had been withdrawn from the guild bank, but those things never got vendored so they were returned to the guild bank. Why was he not completely wiped out you ask?

I like to think it's because our mage class advisor scared the keylogger off my boyfriend's account when he told him that the guild tracks IP addresses and we were sending the cops (and possibly a few members) to his house. While this is a little far-fetched, I really do think the fact that everyone in the guild was sending the key-logger rather threatening tells had a lot to do with why most of my boyfriend's gear was not lost to the vendor gods. He logged off the Shaman before he could send any money to another character and by the time he could do anything with my boyfriend's warrior, my boyfriend had done the whole "I forgot my password -> answer the security question -> get a temporary password" thing and re-gained control of his account.

As far as the whole operating system debate goes... the one major downfall of the Apple is simply that while it is probably more secure, you're gonna pay for it. That, and I don't think I could ever get past not being able to right-click on things. (My boyfriend absolutely refuses to see anything good in the Apple, so that's out of the question for him.) So until the prices come down on the AppleOS, it's PC all the way for me. However, I personally have never had a keylogger...

[Pernicious]

Originally Posted by Carlinda

As far as the whole operating system debate goes... the one major downfall of the Apple is simply that while it is probably more secure, you're gonna pay for it. That, and I don't think I could ever get past not being able to right-click on things. (My boyfriend absolutely refuses to see anything good in the Apple, so that's out of the question for him.) So until the prices come down on the AppleOS, it's PC all the way for me. However, I personally have never had a keylogger...

Glad your boyfriend got his stuff back, must be quite a relief. I caution him in the future though, because I've heard that while Blizz is fairly lenient on these things, they are less so if it happens again to the same account.

As for the above quote. Apple is only considered more secure than Windows because less attacks are made against the Apple OS than the Windows OS. Windows is more widely used, so it becomes the focus of all attacks and so have more attacks to report on in a given day. Also, Apples are built with the same hardware specifications, that adds to its security as no third party components are there to complicate things. Over all speaking though, If the malicious script writing community wanted to attack Macs, they wouldn't have any more difficulty than they do with a Windows machine. They might actually have an easier time as the Macs haven't been subjected to the volume of attacks and many tiny loop holes might exist that are undiscovered as of yet.

Also, if you miss your right mouse click on a Mac... Just buy a mouse with a right and left mouse button. The computer will know what to do with it


I just want to say, I'm neither a Pro-Windows or Pro-Apples kinda guy. I like them all equally and I use both of them frequently in my life/work.

[Cynic]

This is a similar thing that happened to me, a while ago. The way they go about it is rather ingenious, really.. they make a gimmic site that looks in every way like the blizzard forums login page, but if you look at the URL it's something like wtfbananaskkwowlgn.com. It even logs you into the real wow forums so you don't suspect anything until they're on your account, vendoring stuff.

I got my account back pre-vendor by using my secret question to reset the password and logging back on. Everyone was wondering wtf was going on because this had happened mid-raid, and I'd crashed gquit and hearthed right before a Gorefiend attempt.

Glad to hear he got his stuff back, though. And as a reminder to everyone else.. type in your urls for official sites, don't follow links.

[Majestrix]

Sorry to hijack your thread for a moment but I have to respond to the OSX vs. Windows debate...

Your assumption that any "kid" can write a keylogger or viruses is way off base, validating by saying you write code for windows is not helpful.

I can also write code in several different languages and I remove viruses and repair OS's for a living (both mac and PC), none of that makes my opinion any more accurate.

However, IMHO you don't see viruses and keyloggers on a Mac is because it is a waste of time. They control less than 7% of the PC market and the majority of thier users are fairly tech savvy,making them more difficult to exploit.

If you were going to code a keylogger or virus how would you target? The OS with the tech savvy users and the small user base? Or windows with its millions of users who don't even bother to have AV/AS software installed on thier machine.

Yes, mac's require a password to make most system changes... Microsoft added a similiar system (which btw asks you for approval one time only) and was crucified in the media for it...

Both systems have good and bad points, both systems have security holes that can be exploited, both systems to some things better than the other.

However, the only reason Mac's are "more secure" is because the few users out there work hard to make them that way.

The majority of virus/key loggers/spyware crap I see on machines could've been avoided if the user had known more about what they were doing. To the OP, this is not a slight, but did your BF use any sort of "free" AV/AS software he downloaded offline? Were his definitions current? Did he have the option to look for rootkits turned on (did the software even have that option)? did he run the scans in safe mode or from a PE based environment?

If he didn't or you can't answer those questions then you see why his machine was still infected. As I said that's not intended as a slight the majority of PC users I interact with on a daily basis can't answer most of those questions.

Sorry for the long rant and the thread hijack, but I've seen one to many Mac's FTW post as of late...

Maj

[Carlinda]

Originally Posted by Majestrix

The majority of virus/key loggers/spyware crap I see on machines could've been avoided if the user had known more about what they were doing. To the OP, this is not a slight, but did your BF use any sort of "free" AV/AS software he downloaded offline? Were his definitions current? Did he have the option to look for rootkits turned on (did the software even have that option)? did he run the scans in safe mode or from a PE based environment?

If he didn't or you can't answer those questions then you see why his machine was still infected. As I said that's not intended as a slight the majority of PC users I interact with on a daily basis can't answer most of those questions.

Sorry for the long rant and the thread hijack, but I've seen one to many Mac's FTW post as of late...

Maj

No slight taken at all. Yes, the AV/AS software he used was free and downloaded from the internet; but (and I did list these in my original post) they all come highly recommended. And yes, his definitions are current. I have no idea what a "rootkit" is and I'm sure the scans were run in normal everyday mode, whatever that's called. He probably could answer these questions, but he's a Shammie, so he doesn't come here.

And this is the problem... I am well-educated and have decent common sense, and it seems that eventhough I run a $20,000 instrument at work everyday, I'm still not knowledgeable enough about computers to keep my own fully protected. My boyfriend knows far more about this stuff than I do and he still got hacked! The general public just is not informed about the dangers associated with a computer. When you buy a computer, you get a manual that says: connect these parts and turn it on. When you turn it on, there might be a recommended tutorial, but how many of us have ever actually done this. The computer you purchased may have advertised all kinds of security preventatives - but people don't really KNOW for sure. Most of what I have learned about computer security is on this forum from reading other threads similar to mine - and this is a forum for a game!

It's a problem; and people who write keyloggers and viruses, etc. know this and take advantage. I had my current computer for over a year before I had any AV/AS software on it. When my boyfriend finally made me download the necessary programs, I had over 1000 infections of varying types; mostly benign, but still. People don't know until you tell them, which is why I started this thread in the first place: to warn those who aren't naturally suspicious of the dangers on clicking on any links on the WoW forums or otherwise.

[Blubber]

Originally Posted by Carlinda

Thank you for all of your replies and support and helpful suggestions. As of this morning, Blizzard has re-instated all of my boyfriend's gear, though the situation is still under investigation. And I found out (after he was able to go through all of his toons and take inventory) the only major losses were his elemental shaman gear. His tier gear, offsets, and pvp gear were all still in tact. His 70 warrior, who was in pvp gear, didn't lose a thing. A few things had been withdrawn from the guild bank, but those things never got vendored so they were returned to the guild bank. Why was he not completely wiped out you ask?

I like to think it's because our mage class advisor scared the keylogger off my boyfriend's account when he told him that the guild tracks IP addresses and we were sending the cops (and possibly a few members) to his house. While this is a little far-fetched, I really do think the fact that everyone in the guild was sending the key-logger rather threatening tells had a lot to do with why most of my boyfriend's gear was not lost to the vendor gods. He logged off the Shaman before he could send any money to another character and by the time he could do anything with my boyfriend's warrior, my boyfriend had done the whole "I forgot my password -> answer the security question -> get a temporary password" thing and re-gained control of his account.

As far as the whole operating system debate goes... the one major downfall of the Apple is simply that while it is probably more secure, you're gonna pay for it. That, and I don't think I could ever get past not being able to right-click on things. (My boyfriend absolutely refuses to see anything good in the Apple, so that's out of the question for him.) So until the prices come down on the AppleOS, it's PC all the way for me. However, I personally have never had a keylogger...

I would have your boyfriend reformat his hard drive.. The keylogger is apt to strike again b/c he has access to the system unless you wipe it out.

This happened to us last week.. Our GM got hacked, the guild bank got wiped out. Then once he got everything back, he got hacked 2 days later.

Then another guildie got his toon hacked, etc.

Whats annoying is the 2nd time it happened, as it was going on, we petitioned a GM and he wouldnt even freeze the account..

[dubs]

Have your account name always saved helps too...keylogger will only get your pw which is useless without the account name

[Pernicious]

Originally Posted by dubs

Have your account name always saved helps too...keylogger will only get your pw which is useless without the account name

Another simple method that could be used is to keep a notepad document handy that contains your password mixed in with a string of random gibberish words and letters... For example, if your password was Jry90T You might have a document that contains several paragraphs of

jesx7986SXbsadf6896Dhhekl34Jry90Thssyel8663jJkk

Your password is in there, nobody using your computer would ever guess it, and for logging into WoW and other places, you'd simply copy and paste. Key loggers would only detect ctrl + C then ctrl + V.

Just dont forget which string is actually your password. lol.

[Debuff]

Originally Posted by Pernicious

Another simple method that could be used is to keep a notepad document handy that contains your password mixed in with a string of random gibberish words and letters... For example, if your password was Jry90T You might have a document that contains several paragraphs of

jesx7986SXbsadf6896Dhhekl34Jry90Thssyel8663jJkk

Your password is in there, nobody using your computer would ever guess it, and for logging into WoW and other places, you'd simply copy and paste. Key loggers would only detect ctrl + C then ctrl + V.

Just dont forget which string is actually your password. lol.

Some keyloggers can record what is buffered to the clipboard. The closest thing to avoiding keyloggers I've ever seen (besides being wise when clicking links) is using an onscreen keyboard to type in your password. After every letter you type you would move the onscreen keyboard to another random location on the screen so that the keylogger would actually have to know the location of the keyboard on the screen and the attempt to deduce what key you are pressing.

[Absalom]

This is the kind of stuff that scares the crap out of me. I do what I can to keep my system safe but people (knowledgeable or not) can only do so much. You can do everything in your power to try to avoid a trojan, keylogger, spyware and whatever but at some point you will likely get something, even if it is trivial.

The safest computer is one that is turned off. Windows gets attacked because it has gained a stigma of being the love child of an evil corporate entity. I, too, used to spell the company "Micro$oft" though in all honesty... I don't think I would completely attack that company now. How do you make 95% of the world happy? Have you ever tried? I'm lucky if I make two or three people happy... The user base for their OS is huge and therefor the primary target. After years of being told how unsafe the OS is, the stigma sticks. I dont believe that Macs are bullet proof anymore than I believe one is better than the other. If Macs suddenly supported more than the small market they do now, I believe you'd start hearing more about how Macs are "unsafe" as well. If someone wants in.. they'll get in.