Energy Crisis Solved?

[Khaf]

Originally Posted by fresnosmokey

UM, no. Honda has released commercials about their new fuel-cell car. It doesn't crack water for hydrogen you have to fuel the cell with hydrogen which is then released and burned in the engine. The reaction produces only heat and water vapor as waste by products. For now, far as I can tell they're only releasing a few for lease (not for sale) in Hollywood, CA (at least in the USA).

I wish that they'd mass market the thing and get some energy company (doesn't have to be an oil company, could be your local utility company) to start building a hydrogen refueling infrastructure. We are going to have to switch to something besides oil sooner or later anyway. Might as well be now while people are worried about supply, prices, pollution, and global warming. In fact, it might be easier just for those reasons.

Oh so that's how it works. Well at least it's a step in the right direction. Agreed on the second bit. I hope they are not too expensive.

[DrkSnpr14]

Originally Posted by fresnosmokey

I wish that they'd mass market the thing and get some energy company (doesn't have to be an oil company, could be your local utility company) to start building a hydrogen refueling infrastructure. We are going to have to switch to something besides oil sooner or later anyway. Might as well be now while people are worried about supply, prices, pollution, and global warming. In fact, it might be easier just for those reasons.

It boggles the mind it hasn't begun already. Everyone is crying over fuel prices, but nobody is proactively doing anything.

[Anij]

You can not violate the laws of thermodynamics. Water can not be the only fuel for the car because water will not spontaneously break down into hydrogen and oxygen without inputting energy (2H2+O2 <--> 2H2O + energy). Catalysts can increase the speed of a reaction but they will not change the direction.

Go take a look outside your window at the nearest tree and look at the top of it. All those little green things are called leaves. They break apart hydrogen and oxygen atoms every day without outside sources of fuels. Or, more accurately I should say what we consider alternative fuels currently. Yes it's possible to extract energy from water, nature has been doing it for thousands of years, but man's science is still a bit slow on achieving it.


As mentioned in the wiki article, if a metal hydride is used to react with the water to produce hydrogen, then the metal hydride is part of the fuel necessary for the car.

Very true. Also something to consider is the cost of this fuel as well.

It's nice to see that we're advancing with alternative fuels, but I dare say the scienc is far from perfected. (Look at early combustion engines). Yet even if they did come out with a viable vehicle that could efficiently use an alternative fuel, I highly doubt , at least in America, that we'd be clammoring for said new vehicle overnight. We have an affinity with 2 things. Things that are big and things that are powerful. In the land of oversized SUV's that always manage to get bigger and bigger, I highly dobt we'd be switching overnight. Fuel prices have been increasing for years now and yet people have still been purchasing these gas guzzelers. I thinnk for this country to convert to this type of fuel would require a major shift in how we determine whats important. Or the alternative vehicle will have to be able to perform comperably to our current vehicles. Quite frankly, thats not what I saw in that small tiny compact that looked like it could barely move.

[Suspiria]

Well, i just propose to watch carefully the revealing and extraordinary artivist film "Zeitgeist".

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

I think it explains much about the relation of economical universal Power concentrated on some companies, religion and "terrorism"!

As it says

[Akasha]

Hrm, interesting. I stumbled onto a movie on Foxtel (our pay TV) the other week, geez I wish I could remember what it was called. I came in part way through so not even sure of the full story, but it was a documentary on an alternative fueled car that was tested, but then 'hidden away' by the manufacturer. It was somewhere in the states, I want to say Honda but I'm not sure. The documentary had a part in it where a group of people were actually trying to buy the cars left sitting in the car lot from the manufacturer so they wouldn't be destroyed.

Urg I don't have a brain at the moment, can't remember the name.

Anyway, it was a completely normal looking car, much like what is on the roads now. Only it didn't use petrol/gas, it used something else. Not sure if it was water, that's ringing a bell. What ever it was, it was something we had an absolute abundance of, and I'm wanting to say Water because I remember thinking at the time that it would help lower our sea levels from all the melting ice caps.

The car worked fine, and even had some 5,000 buyers lined up to purchase them. I can't even remember why the manufacturer was destroying them all. Ahh bugger, I'm no use am I....

[Vaell]

Originally Posted by Suspiria

Well, i just propose to watch carefully the revealing and extraordinary artivist film "Zeitgeist".

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

I think it explains much about the relation of economical universal Power concentrated on some companies, religion and "terrorism"!

As it says

What an amazing film. I'm watching it now. Very enlightening.

[forketta]

Intresting. But as already stated "You can not violate the laws of thermodynamics".
You cant separate the components of water, then recombine them and obtain more energy than the one used to separate.
Sorry, no magical "dark pact" for our dirty word.
Zeitgeist movie. Nice product of our society. In some ways reminds me that book, "no logo"...

Just one note on our way to deal with energy crysis:
when we switch off the television (or the hi-fi, like many other devices in our house), we don't switch it off. We put it in stand-by. One crazy man calculated how many power is needed to fuel all our stand-by devices.
The result is: in Europe there are more than 40 nuclear power plants. One of them is needed for all the european electronic devices in stand-by.
Of course i have no way to verify how much truth is in this words. But i think this note is intriguing.

[fresnosmokey]

Originally Posted by Anij

It's nice to see that we're advancing with alternative fuels, but I dare say the scienc is far from perfected. (Look at early combustion engines). Yet even if they did come out with a viable vehicle that could efficiently use an alternative fuel, I highly doubt , at least in America, that we'd be clammoring for said new vehicle overnight. We have an affinity with 2 things. Things that are big and things that are powerful. In the land of oversized SUV's that always manage to get bigger and bigger, I highly dobt we'd be switching overnight. Fuel prices have been increasing for years now and yet people have still been purchasing these gas guzzelers. I thinnk for this country to convert to this type of fuel would require a major shift in how we determine whats important. Or the alternative vehicle will have to be able to perform comperably to our current vehicles. Quite frankly, thats not what I saw in that small tiny compact that looked like it could barely move.

OK, where to start?

Far from perfected: Neither was any device you currently own when people first started buying them. What? You think the first publicly available computers were released with the ability to play World of Warcraft? No. Consumer goods "evolve" according to the demands of the consumer/marketplace and nothing is ever "perfected". Things just get better over time. See your own "(look at early combustion engines)". People still bought them and they got better over time.

Doubt that there'd be any "clammoring" for "said new vehicle" overnight: I don't doubt it at all, if they had the proper refueling infrastructure in place. Remember when the Prius first came out. Toyota couldn't keep them in stock. They were back ordered forever. Plus, more and more automakers are introducing new models of hybrids all the time.

Affinity for things big and powerful; land of oversized SUV's: According to what I've been reading lately (and no I won't cite "site's" lol - just do a search on your own) most, if not all, automakers are slowing their production of trucks and SUV's. I saw a story a week or two ago, linked from Yahoo I think, in which GM is considering halting production of the Hummer altogether.

Major shift in how we determine what's important: I contend that our consumer - environmental - energy paradigm is shifting right now. Note the previous two paragraphs: increased demand for hybrids and the slowdown in demand for gas guzzling trucks and SUV's. Plus things that have nothing to do with cars...more energy efficient appliances in the home, those curly compact flourescent light bulbs that everyone (the royal everyone not the absolute everyone) is using (some places are considering halting the sale of regular light bulbs altogether), mandatory and voluntary recycling, plus many other things. Those are just what I could come up with off the top of my head.

Small, tiny, compact that looks like it could barely move: Looks like your trying to prove your point with your own impression. I don't think that the Clarity looks any different than any other car in it's size class. It's a compact car. It looks like any other compact car. I, personally, think it looks rather nice. It's fairly fuel efficient. It gets about 270 miles between refuelings. That will get better over time, just like any other consumer product and it's not all that bad now. It has safety features comparable to any other car in it's class. It has a top speed of 100mph, which is sufficent for any posted speed limit in the US, or anywhere else far as I know.

You see things are changing. In general people would like them to change. Some of our politicians are proposing more domestic oil production. Leaving the environmental and aesthetic considerations aside, I still think that's knee-jerk and shortsighted. By the time we could get any new oil sources producing enough to make any difference, we could have begun a real shift over to fuel cells.

But, these are MY thoughts, and I'm just sayin'....

*edit* For those that want to take a look.
Honda FCX Clarity - Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle - Official Web Site

[Akasha]

Found it! Who Killed the Electric Car?

Doumentary was called 'who killed the electric car'.

It was among the fastest, most efficient production cars ever built. It ran on electricity, produced no emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric vehicles in the Arizona desert?

WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR? chronicles the life and mysterious death of the GM EV1, examining its cultural and economic ripple effects and how they reverberated through the halls of government and big business.

Trailer:

[Minou]

If you want to do a little energy saving use Blackle instead of Google.
All it does is changing the white google screen to black.

In January 2007 a blog post titled Black Google Would Save 750 Megawatt-hours a Year

Even small things count