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May 19, 2008, 08:36 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kyriel 80 Blood Elf Warlock Bonechewer US PvP Guild: Tribo Habagat Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
I know spell damage and spell hit have been thoroughly discussed on these boards, and I've spent hours reading up on spell hit and spell damage and spell crit and their effects on your DPS. This may be a crazy theory, but while walking home, I thought what if I just dropped half of my spell hit (16% down to 8%) and started getting pure spell damage (or same damage with more haste and crit)? The accepted answer is that your DPS would just go down, get hit to 16%, etc. But then after doing some very light math, I found some very interesting results. Here are my calculations: For ease of comparison 0% crit and 0% haste. Both warlocks are on : 0 / 21 / 40 build Shadowbolt 11 : 550 average damage, 105.71 spell coefficient, 100 Sbolt spam. Assumptions on Warlock 1 : 1200 spell+shadow damage, 16% spell hit (99% hit on a 73+ mob) Assumptions on Warlock 2 : 1400 spell+shadow damage, 8% hit (91% hit on a 73+ mob) Formula: (SB damage + ((Spell Damage * SBcoef)/100)) * number of hits Calculation for Warlock 1: (550 + ((1200 * 105.71%)) = 1818.52 per bolt 1818.52 * 99hits = 180,033.48 damage done Calculation for Warlock 2: (550 + ((1400 * 105.71%)) = 2029.94 per bolt 2029.94 * 91hits = 184,724.54 damage done -- It seems that the warlock with more spell damage still ended up with more damage done after the resists, this just gets better as the mob level gets lower or if the fight is shorter. now of course this can be a 2 edged sword, you can end up having less DPS (lots of resist strings) or more DPS (almost no resists), although from my experience you normally hit more than miss. remarks, comments, corrections and suggestions please  PS. I haven't tried this theory on the spreadsheet calc. as I haven't had the time to go and figure out the items to be able to get these figures (or close to these figures). You can get the excel sheet I created to compare the figures here: http://www.tribo-habagat.org/spell_d...comparison.xls |
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May 19, 2008, 08:53 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Lacky 70 Undead Warlock Spirestone US PvP |
Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
You have oversimplified it and that has made some of your calculations wrong. Some factors you should include are crit rating. Since a SB crit will do twice the damage of a normal hit. The less hits you have the less crits you have. Also it will increase the uptime of Imp. SB which will dramatically effect damage. It also seems that your average SB hit is about 1.8k where in reality in a raid setting my SBs average well over 3k damage(potential for 8.5k crits with the right buffs up). This makes a resist much more significant then what your damage numbers reflect. The value of spell hit v. spell damage is about 1 to 1. Keep that in mind with your calculations. You are giving 100 hit for 200 spell damage in your scenario with only 8% hit. There would be nothing wrong with sacrificing 1 hit for 2 spell damage. |
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May 19, 2008, 09:00 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Voidnull 70 Undead Warlock Gorgonnash Euro PvP Guild: unleash Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
placeholder, your example is flawed and bad. Connecting our new "big tv" 42" LCD, get back to you in a few minutes. edit: damn lacky said it almost all. Last edited by Maltyrius; May 19, 2008 at 05:59 PM.. Reason: removed psuedo profanity |
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May 19, 2008, 09:54 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
hmmmm, i'm going to include more accuracy into your formulae, as well as buffs and debuffs so that people can see the point more clearly. Also there is a big point that lacky pointed out, which I will come on to in a moment. Here's your formulae, with some things added to think about. Assumptions on Warlock 1 : 1200 spell+shadow damage, 16% spell hit (99% hit on a 73+ mob) Assumptions on Warlock 2 : 1400 spell+shadow damage, 8% hit (91% hit on a 73+ mob) Formula: (SB damage + ((Spell Damage * SBcoef)/100)) * number of hits I'm going to factor in the number of crits to make the calculations slightly more accurate. Assuming you're going with 25% talented crit, that number would have been double, approximately 25 times. Also, your improved shadowbolt would proc on crit, so theoretically the damage of your normal hits AND every crit would be raised by 20% extra. (I'm not going to factor ISB in for the sake of simplicity) Buffs to think about: 1) Shadowpriest misery/shadow weaving debuff. 2) Sacced Succubus 15% Your bolt would have another 15% from shadowpriest misery added on to the end value of it, PLUS, your sacced succubus, another 15% added. Here's a more accurate picture. Calculation for Warlock 1: (550 + ((1200 * 105.71%)*1.15*1.15) = 2405 with all your debuffs. (2405*0.75 + 4810*0.25)*99 hits = 297k damage done (rounded to 3 s.f) Calculation for Warlock 2: (550 + ((1400 * 105.71%)*1.15*1.15) = 2684.59 per bolt (2684.59*0.75 + 5369*0.25)*91hits = 305k damage done. Now that we're done with the accuracy, here's the REAL point. While it might seem like you exchanged hit for damage in a 1 to 1 ratio, in reality, you exchanged hit for damage in a 1 to 2 ratio. You gave us numbers based on a 200 spell damage gain but only a 100 hit loss. Let's take another look at the values with a 1 to 1 spell damage for hit rating conversion. Calculation for Warlock 1 remains the same. (550 + ((1200 * 105.71%)*1.15*1.15) = 2405 with all your debuffs. (2405*0.75 + 4810*0.25)*99 hits = 297k damage done (rounded to 3 s.f) Since we are now trading hit for spell damage in a 1 to 1 ratio, that means 200 spell damage -> 200 hit, which means warlock 2 has now ended up with 0% hit, which means a 16% miss rate. Calculation for warlock 2: (550 + ((1400 * 105.71%)*1.15*1.15) = 2684.59 per bolt (2684.59*0.75 + 5369*0.25)*83 hits = 279k damage done. (thanks to theeffect for the minor correction ;D) Conclusion? 1 hit > 1 spell damage, as already proven by the spreadsheet. But if you can gain MORE than 1 spell damage for every spell hit that you lose, spell damage ends up being slightly better. :P There you go. Last edited by Solarus; May 19, 2008 at 10:21 AM.. |
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May 19, 2008, 10:16 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Psaurie 70 Human Warlock Sen'jin US PvE Guild: Honu Profile: http://wowmb.net/forums/Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41/9/11 |
Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
If you can easily get 200 more damage while losing 100 hit, please tell me how. I would love to do it, on a trash set. In fact I swap gear (Outfitter ) to gain a measly 21 damage for trash (1210 Boss set to 1231 trash). If I gemmed for pure damage maybe another 30 damage could be gained. So a realistic difference doesn't seem to be much better than 50. And as previous threads and Murphy's Law have shown: Soulshatter resist can be very bad. |
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May 19, 2008, 10:19 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
just one correction to the last calculation - if we asume 0 hit rating we have a miss rate of 17%. The calculation will be 278,5 k damage for warlock 2 => but ofc the conclusion doesn't change |
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May 19, 2008, 11:17 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Lacky 70 Undead Warlock Spirestone US PvP |
Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
Quote:
hehe |
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May 19, 2008, 04:02 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kyriel 80 Blood Elf Warlock Bonechewer US PvP Guild: Tribo Habagat Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
Like I said, I already knew that 1 hit > 1 spell damage (as shown in the spreadsheet), but what I'm not entirely sure of is if Blizzard weights the cost of 1 spell hit as almost equal to 1 spell damage. Anyway, I tried coming up with the items to drop 8% hit and tried to gain 200 more spell damage, and well, I was only able to gain about 120 spell damage more also lost 3% crit in the process, which will really drop DPS. And for the record, I was merely trying to look at it from a different point of view. I was not trying to disprove that 1 hit > 1 spell damage because this has been proven time and time again. LOL! |
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May 19, 2008, 05:03 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Re: Getting Spell Hit vs Spell Damage
Well if you look at it like this: All gems being equal, Max haste gem you can get is 10 haste. Max hit gem you can get is 10 hit. Max spell damage gem you can get is 12. (excluding JC only ones) So I would presume that in terms of item level, haste and hit are worth SLIGHTLY more points than spell damage. |
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