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September 25, 2009, 07:00 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Gear comparison tools
Since i'm now raiding end game and most of the loot available to me is not a massive upgrade, i need a tool that will help me decide on whether certain gear is a worthy upgrade, and will also help me with Tier choices. The programmes i have are: Leulier's DPS spreadsheet Rawr Simcraft Spreadsheet: I quite like this, you load your gear from the armoury and you change your gear using a drop down menu. You can also see which items are an upgrade. However, i'm not too sure how this uses hit rating in its calculations. Does it rank all the hit items above non-hit items? Also, my dps figure seems to go down if i equip 2 piece T9 (245) which also seems wrong. I find the mechanic of it quite complicated and i'm not sure whether to believe it. Rawr: i like how simple it is, the optimise tool is good though the build upgrade list doesn't seem to show what it's meant to show at all, unless i'm not using it properly. However the gear lists are a bit odd, it seems to value certain stats which you wouldn't think it should, and it goes against what you find from calculating it with stat weights from simcraft. It is also very slow and buggy for my liking. Simcraft: Love this programme, really shows in depth the mechanics of your damage output and i like how it shows your procs and stat weights. Problems? It can take a while to figure out how to use it, configuring it can be complicated, and i can't take it seriously since it presumes i'm in an optimal raid setup, which i'm not. All i want to know is what i should spend my precious trophy on (might be the only one i ever get) and what i should get for 232 level. So really i want people to tell me what tools they use, how to use them properly and how accurate they are, and whether they will tell me what i want to know. |
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September 25, 2009, 09:12 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: Gear comparison tools
Don't take it too seriously. Look, assume you find the perfect tool that tells you which upgrade is the best, averaged over all fight situations that currently happen in ToC and Ulduar. It tells you that the T9.245 legs are a 5.37 dps better upgrade than the chest. You buy them, go to a VoA pug, and they drop again and you are the only lock... Alternative: You go for the chest since you think you might get the legs from VoA, but they never drop, and you sit there with your chest for a few month, knowing that you only got the second best item option. Third scenario: You take the chest, but suddenly have access to some great weapon that however has hit rating on it, and with weapon and chest you are suddenly way over the hit cap, making the chest a bad choice. So, knowing the ideal upgrade isn't that helpful. Concerning the tools: I use simcraft, combined with the armory import and wowhead-profiler to simulate different gear sets and so to evaluate possible upgrades. I'm pretty happy so far with the results. Tests on the dummy seem to agree with the dps increase that simcraft predicts for a certain gear set... I know one of your concerns is about how simcraft handles heroism/bloodlust and how this affects your stat weights if you don't have it. I would say the effect is small, since simcraft runs a 5 minute simulation while heroism only lasts 40 seconds... so it only should affect stat weights at the 10% level. One should also use a bit of common sense when looking at stat weights: The net value of spirit is (0.39+0.2)*1.1 = 0.649 the value of spellpower (fel armor + talents + life tap + kings buff). Any value for spirit that deviates largely from this number should be taken with a grain of salt. Haste varies a lot depending on the actual amount of haste on the gear set, so with 500 haste you might get a value of 1.10, going to 520 haste might reduce this to 1.02 and with 550 haste you might suddenly see a 1.23 value. It is because of this that I prefer running through complete gear sets nowadays. |
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September 25, 2009, 10:13 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
makilélè 80 Undead Warlock Sargeras Euro PvP Guild: Les templiers du chaos Talent Spec: 3/14/54 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
I usually do run simcraft, check lootrank/wowhead to have an idea of the possible upgrade(not only the BIS one). IG I have used pawn which provide me the dps for each item based on scale factors. However, I have recently discovered rhadatip which provide much more functionality than pawn and is developped by a warlock guy. RhadaTip Dps/Hps Tooltip Enhancer : WoWInterface Downloads : ToolTip It show you the dps bring by the item but also the overall dps of your stuff. An item with 80 hit for instance will bring less overall dps if you are already hit-capped. Moreover, there is a gem optimizer, a gear set compare(you can define through wowequip gear combination),pre-defined scale-factor coming from EJ... The next release 2.4(comsing soon :-( ) will provide a gear optimizer which will give you the best combination for your current gears + gears in back. For instance, this will help you to decide if you have to take a non-hit item knowing that you have a hit trinket in your bag ansering the question "Is the hit trinket+new gear > old gear+non hit trinket" ? For the moment, I use Optigear from EJ to optimize my bag gear. For the gears choicen, here is my own story: I have bought the ring(wand too but that was a mistake), droped 2 T9 in archavon, received one token for shoulder. Depends on how lucky you are but I would not spend triump for hand and legs. Indeed, I would get my 4p T9 bonus with head,shoulder from token and hand,legs from VOA which will allow me to craft merlin's robe(120 emblem for 8 crusader orb). I could also craft the 2nd BIS wirst. Last edited by thetrueavatar; September 25, 2009 at 10:59 AM.. |
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September 25, 2009, 10:18 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
Indeed, the chest is itemised so well though in my opinion. Dropping all that crit for even more spirit just seems right. Though i also wouldn't mind the merlin's robe considering i may receive some hit gear. So the helm and cheap gloves are probably the safest option right now, i can upgrade my T8 legs through VoA since i can get T8.5 as well as T9. Last edited by Jenren22; September 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM.. |
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September 25, 2009, 10:39 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Fizzik 80 Blood Elf Warlock Dunemaul US PvP Guild: Ghosts of Damnation Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
There's a ton of them that you can use (I know, I think I use every one...), but as posters have said - they're helpful tools rather than anything definitive. There are some gear optimizing programs: Rawr - A very sophisticated and complete gear optimizer, that's still unfortunately not so complete for warlocks. It's very handy to use, but several items are missing (trinkets are a problem). Optigear - a BiS optimizer that can also calculate using user defined gear. (Lots of manual work here if you want to sort through the gear, really best used just to find BiS rather than as a bag gear optimizer) There are also some in game addons RhadaTip - this gives you one overall DPS gain/loss for each item vs current gear. Unlike most of these programs it calculates the absence of +hit rather than counting +hit positively (allows you to make decisions on +hit vs other stats, good tooltip addon, but doesn't allow you to compare an item's Afflic DPS potential with its Destro potential, for example) Pawn - Does this same thing, but with more functionality, including and item compare. You can have multiple stat weightings that will show on your tooltip (Allows you to compare different stat weights pvp, demo, destro, etc... The item comparison is nice too. Although RhadaTip is better in the way it treats +hit, I prefer this for it's flexibility) BonusScanner - This is more of a straightforward stat comparison in tooltip, if you don't want to see combined stat weights. Sites: Warcrafter - Allows you to gear, chant & gem and see the impact of those choices on your spell DPS. (Nice for playing around with when you're not in game, but doesn't really account for set bonuses or trinket values.) As for your trophy - I went for Legs and Hands. These drop in VoA, but I wasn't going to bank on it and had the emblems. Wasn't too terribly impressed by the rest of the tier gear. |
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September 25, 2009, 11:53 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
Of course everyone is different. I personally think the gloves are terrible, but then again i value spirit highly and crit very low (probably why my crit is so god damn low). Whatever happens, i don't see the point in getting both legs and gloves for there are other options for obtaining them via VoA than the helm and chest, and i know full well the helm will be part of my tier gear eventually. I plan on either my non tier shoulders or the Merlin's robe for my non tier item. I'm not gonna bank myself on getting another trophy, so i might as well go helm and legs than i can simply get the badge gloves and chest/shoulders, save up for the Merlin's robe then swap out my non tier shoulders once i get it. By that point i may receive another trophy (who knows) and i can then get the better shoulders (as the 232 ones are not worth getting unless i get the merlin's robe) Presuming i upgrade my gear around my tier my stats will look pretty decent at the end of it. |
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September 26, 2009, 09:45 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Re: Gear comparison tools
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September 26, 2009, 02:25 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Odolocks 70 Gnome Warlock Proudmoore US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
I found an in game tool that gives you the DPS increase. You will need the DPS numbers for each spec you use and then you can inter how much int spirit sp and so on that increase the dps. I found those on the EJ sight. when you look at a piece of gear it will show you how much each piece increases or decreases your DPS. Rhadatip is the name of the add on RhadaTip DPS/HPS Tooltip - Addons - Curse Some sim numbers Warlock_T8_53_00_18 Sta=0.00 Int=0.35 Spi=1.04 SP=1.60 Hit=2.16 Crit=0.90 Haste=1.07 Warlock_T8_00_40_31 Sta=0.20 Int=0.38 Spi=0.96 SP=1.32 Hit=2.93 Crit=0.79 Haste=1.32 Warlock_T8_00_41_30 Sta=0.19 Int=0.47 Spi=1.16 SP=1.28 Hit=2.37 Crit=0.73 Haste=1.25 Warlock_T8_03_52_16 Sta=0.19 Int=0.41 Spi=0.93 SP=1.25 Hit=2.63 Crit=0.81 Haste=1.21 Warlock_T8_00_13_58 Sta=0.00 Int=0.31 Spi=1.02 SP=1.59 Hit=3.57 Crit=0.82 Haste=1.10 Warlock_T8_03_13_55 Sta=0.00 Int=0.32 Spi=1.22 SP=1.56 Hit=3.24 Crit=0.81 Haste=1.15 You might need to update the numbers for T9 It will only show you the increase for the spec you are using at that time. it gives you an Idea if you should spend DKP on an item. As with any of the tools it is as good as the numbers you use to set it up. It is not perfect, but it has helped me conserve my DKP. Do not to forget to set up your hit cap you can read about it on the Curse sight. Last edited by chinsaw; September 26, 2009 at 02:32 PM.. |
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September 27, 2009, 05:35 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Gear comparison tools
Just started using this combined with the spreadsheet instead of simcraft/rawr and they both work better for me (since the spreadsheet was update). Really impressed so far. Do the T9 spec values only apply if you are wearing full T9? Also make sure you change your hit cap accordingly. For example for an item that was a downgrade due to me not needing hit, but an upgrade in spell power etc, i would set my hit cap to the suppression cap rather than 14% and it turned out to be an upgrade. Allows for switching around of spec too. |
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November 01, 2009, 05:58 AM
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#10 (permalink) | |
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Re: Gear comparison tools
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