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August 19, 2011, 01:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tristae Character Info Triste 85 Human Warlock Argent Dawn US RP PvE Guild: Defenders of Eternity Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Demonology	Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Can someone help me understand this? If I'm sitting at 887 crit (14.51%), 1048 haste (8.18%), 1607 mastery (16.96), Simcraft says this: Int: 2.9499 SP: 2.2985 Hit: 2.1364 Crit: 1.1519 Haste: 1.3305 Mastery: 1.5201 So I take it more Mastery would be nice. I reforge 59 haste to 59 mastery (my boots): 887 crit (14.51%), 989 haste (7.72%), 1666 mastery (17.29). Simcraft now says this: Int: 2.9239 SP: 2.3107 Hit: 2.1203 Crit: 1.1882 Haste: 2.2822 Mastery: 1.5327 Suddenly haste is valued above hit. What's going on here? Everything I've read says there are no haste plateaus. P.S.: Does anyone know for sure what the Dark Intent check box means in Simcraft? Does that mean another warlock is DI'ing me (not gonna happen?). These sims I did with DI checked, but I got similar results if that box was unchecked.

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August 19, 2011, 02:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scathbais Character Info Scathbais 90 Undead Warlock Mal'Ganis US PvP Guild: Adult Swim Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction Destruction	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo I notice you are affliction/demo. Perhaps you changed spec between simcraft runs? Affliction favors haste>crit>mastery while demo favors mastery>haste>crit. Either that or you need to run with at least 10000 iterations for the results to be stable. __________________ A living Warlock = a dead everybody else

August 19, 2011, 02:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
D1RE Character Info Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Mastery scales are far too high for him to have simmed it as aff. __________________ Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business.

August 19, 2011, 03:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chula Character Info Chula 85 Human Warlock Shattrath Euro PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Demonology	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Honestly thinking any sim for warlocks that scales mastery higher than haste is demo, and even demo should not generate this ration mastery vs haste at OP's gear, there should still be haste > mastery. Well, OP went master way really early, too early from my POV, but never mind.^^ There's no reason to sim affliction with these value, just muck that specc. ;) And simming affliction with moonwell chalice is quite a mess, I'm sure both trinkets from GB and BRC 5mens are better for affliction than MC. SimCraft is a tool, learn to use it correctly, but more important learn your specc or the needs of it. To answer haste question: SC rates haste abnormally high if there is some sweet spot within +/- 300 rating points. And to squeeze reforging: SC's scaling are only valid for theoretical scaling of adding/subtracting ONE stat ratingwise w/o touching any other therefor. Anything beyond this is just fishing in muddy waters. __________________ If privacy is called criminal, only criminals will enjoy privacy.

August 19, 2011, 06:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tristae Character Info Triste 85 Human Warlock Argent Dawn US RP PvE Guild: Defenders of Eternity Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Demonology	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Sorry, I put Demo in the title but not elsewhere. It is for Demo, and it was run with 10,000 interations. So it sounds like Chula is saying I should go with haste for my gear level? That's fine with me, but then I don't know what my stat rankings should be for gear. I'm pretty sure if I stack haste all the way, Simcraft tells me mastery's better, and if I stack mastery all the way, it tells me haste is better. So I did 1 reforge at a time to figure out at what point it was flipping them around. I just wasn't sure if I should treat them as equal or what. Thanks for the replies.

August 19, 2011, 08:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paranoiia Character Info Paranoiia 85 Orc Warlock Rivendare US PvP Guild: Final Chapter Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction Demonology	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo The amount of mastery on 391 heroic t12 gear makes Haste scale better than Mastery at that level. In fact, Demo's stat priority gets completely screwed when you reach that item level. BiS at 391 closely resembles affliction's BiS set, using DMC:Volcano and Rune of Zeth instead of Chalice / N-Focus.

August 20, 2011, 07:24 AM

#7 (permalink)

Chula

Character Info
Chula
85 Human Warlock
Shattrath Euro PvE
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Demonology

Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristae

Sorry, I put Demo in the title but not elsewhere. It is for Demo, and it was run with 10,000 interations. So it sounds like Chula is saying I should go with haste for my gear level? That's fine with me, but then I don't know what my stat rankings should be for gear.

I'm pretty sure if I stack haste all the way, Simcraft tells me mastery's better, and if I stack mastery all the way, it tells me haste is better. So I did 1 reforge at a time to figure out at what point it was flipping them around. I just wasn't sure if I should treat them as equal or what.

Thanks for the replies.

--- It is for Demo, and it was run with 10,000 interations.
Run SC with at least 25k iterations! Output is more accurate with less error range and e.g. I wouldn't know what's on if there'd be some (normalized) haste=0.4111, mastery=045511, error=0.06209.

--- So it sounds like Chula is saying I should go with haste for my gear level?
Sounds right. ;)

--- That's fine with me, but then I don't know what my stat rankings should be for gear.
Well, that's what SC is for. ;)

--- I'm pretty sure if I stack haste all the way, Simcraft tells me mastery's better, and if I stack mastery all the way, it tells me haste is better.

I don't think so. Yesterday night I was just ts'ing with some ingame friends and trying to 'kill 'n loot' raid dummies in IF for some checks on exactly that issue. Grouped with shadow, DI'ed and hitting the dummies as well, we were running a number of tests, me reforging any available haste to mastery vs original state, running a lot of chardev'ed variations of my profile in background through SC. If you don't mind, I'll put in here some kind of abstract of yesterday's night:

Start was SC giving haste some 10% better rating than mastery, when I reforged to mastery, scaling went mastery>haste for roughly 15% (50k iterations). Lock's damage went down, minions' damage went up, with overall damage slightly less simcrafted. You see, there's not just relative rating of two stats to consider but more important there's the one and only damage DONE to keep in mind. Now to tests:

Lock's damage slighly went down, minions' damage went up by considerably more than lock's loss. (Plz KEEP IN MIND, 2-3 times hitting dummies for 5-7 min each try is heavily RNG loaded!) Overall damage went up, (just to be on par with last paragraph.^^)

Staying with doggy was slightly superior to 'perfect demo pet rotation' with FG summoning <resummoning cast time> before hitting meta and insta doggy summoning after felstorm. Ofc I did meta only with MC/DS ready both times. Might be issue with my reaction time, might be 'gear's not just fine for this', might be mixture of these two. Overall result to me was: Mastery way of gearing is more forgiving as relative minion damage is largely bigger and minion's tend to 'do things correctly'. ;)
If your 2nd specc is affliction you'd better go haste or put your hearth stone at reforger's room, but this was out of question anyway, I think. ;)

__________________
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August 20, 2011, 12:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
Adzlock Character Info Adzlock 80 Gnome Warlock Icecrown US PvE Guild: Malowned	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo I went through the exact same thing the op is doing now. In the end I settled on reforging Hit to 1742 and Haste to 1993 and after that it is all Mastery. Adz

August 20, 2011, 09:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
ward0112 Character Info Sidieon 80 Human Warlock Dath Remar Oceania PvE Guild: Jelly	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Use the feature in simulation craft to create theoretical gear sets, and change around the refitting / enchanting and re sim it. This will save you a bunch of gold rather than doing it in game

August 20, 2011, 11:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
Paranoiia Character Info Paranoiia 85 Orc Warlock Rivendare US PvP Guild: Final Chapter Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction Demonology	Re: Question on Simcrafting haste/mastery for Demo Correct me if I'm wrong, but as you stack one stat, others start to carry greater weights? Right? I mean, we often times set ourselves into a certain stat breakdown because it gives us satisfying results, but I'm assuming as you reach higher levels of mastery, Haste scales better because its effects are more noticeable.

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