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January 31, 2008, 02:38 PM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Re: Damage Meters?
I like the SWstats for the data channel it utilizes. If at least a few people use it, you won't get missing data from being out of range (or dead). Doing BM recently, I was the only one using SWstats on adds (so I still had out of range data) and the leader was a tank using DM. There was a 20% difference. I was at the top of mine, and at the bottom of his. So, totally useless information was gathered that couldn't be compared. |
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January 31, 2008, 03:07 PM
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#12 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Valcoris 70 Human Warlock Duskwood US PvE Guild: Outlandish Knights Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41/3/17 |
Re: Damage Meters?
For overall raid performance etc WWS wins hands down. For personal performance I like Recount and Shadow Seer. Recount give an accurate idea of what your personal dps is based on your combat up time. It also breaks down each spell for hits crits resists and partials which I find to be really nice. Recount also provides a real time dps graph that I've been using to improve my trash dps. For figuring out who is doing the most dps or who is doing the most damage.... *shrugs* go stroke your epeen somewhere else is my opinion. If the boss goes down the raid was successful so who cares if I did 10% of the damage or 90% of the damage. If the boss doesn't go down look at everyone on WWS and see where they can improve both in play style and gear. The reality is we are all competitive for that #1 in damage slot but it really means little in the long run. It doesn't even mean anything for you personally other than the ego stroke. Case in point: I push 800-850dps in my last kara run. The next closest dps class was a mage who was putting out 500-550dps. I accounted for about 25-30% of the raid damage. So since I out damage our mage by 300 dps and am makeing up almost 1/3 of the damage as opposed to 1/5 of the damage in a 10-man I should just sit on my hands? Don't worry about upping damage on trash or getting better at dot refreshes on bosses. Never mind the spellstrike hood or the badge belt and trinket. See the thing is... even if I were 50% of the raid dps and 7-800dps over the next dps class I wouldn't just stop trying to improve. The question isn't about what damage meter is most accurate for showing who did the most damage or dps but what damage meter provides the most useful information for each raid member to improve their gear and play style? However, if your looking for a mod like SWstats that won't be gimmped as badly by people running Damage Meters... Check out Violation It pulls data from DamageMeters SWStats Violation your own combat log and the combat log of other people in the group.
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Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4. I am guilty of self censorship... we all do it every day... sometimes it is a good thing... and sometimes no matter how tough we act... it is because something scares us. Last edited by Valcoris; January 31, 2008 at 03:11 PM.. Reason: Added violation info |
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January 31, 2008, 04:04 PM
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#13 (permalink) | |
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Re: Damage Meters?
The problem with WWS is that it takes some work and time to get the results. Recount and SWstats can provide results in real time. I used shadowseer for a bit and the results seemed kinda off (it is beta). Plus the author put development on hold until 2.4 patch. Quote:
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January 31, 2008, 04:41 PM
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#14 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Valcoris 70 Human Warlock Duskwood US PvE Guild: Outlandish Knights Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41/3/17 |
Re: Damage Meters?
There is more involved in a dps classes performance than just dps. Hunters freeze and kite. Mages sheep, spell steal, and can even blink kit for a short time. Warlocks can seduce, ping pong fear and kite. rogues can sap, stun lock, kick. Every class in WoW is more than just a single use class. :( sad because the specialization of classes found in other games makes each class a true challenge to play and each class completely different. WWS provides that data out side of real time and is more accurate. If someone is consistently under performing due to their play style it will show that. What SWStats or Damage Meters does is ego. If I have 1 off night where my normal 800 dps is even say... 250 dps... does that mean I shouldn't have a raid slot because one night out of the many I've done that content I produced sub-par damage. I will grant the fact I am in a social guild hitting raid content and not a more raid focused guild may color my flavor. For me I want all my dps classes to continually seek to improve both their gear and their play style regardless of where they fall on the meter. Because the meter only shows damage not the full range of what is expected out of a player. For me I would rather take a hunter putting out 250dps that can trap and kite incredibly well than a hunter putting out 800dps that can't trap or kite to save his life. Maybe it is my guild style or maybe it is just the way the meters are falling for my team right now but the bar I set is not to compare myself to my group members but to look at info here and on WWS reports and ask myself what I can do to improve. My bar is to look at a lock at around my content level or maybe even a little above and see what their dps is and try to match that. And if I happen to match that then my goal is to beat that. Because I don't want to just be the best dps in the group, I want to be pushing my toon to the highest level of dps my class can attain and that means using people that are much more serious about their raid content as the bar. All in all I agree WWS Recount etc all have their place I just urge people not to use it as the only determining factor for how someone else or they are performing.
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Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4. I am guilty of self censorship... we all do it every day... sometimes it is a good thing... and sometimes no matter how tough we act... it is because something scares us. |
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January 31, 2008, 06:05 PM
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#15 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Fimotik 70 Orc Warlock Khaz'goroth Oceania PvE Guild: Conviction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 7/0/51 |
Re: Damage Meters?
Even though most of the examples have been for 5/10 mans, even in a 25-man raid environment, you need to be very careful of how you look at the data. Cases in point. A mage who is consistently in the middle of the DPS rankings, lower than the other mages. On the face of it, it is looking like this mage is letting the side down. So I dig a bit deeper. The mage is a fire mage, are are 2 of the 3 mages above him. Then I look at the number of fireballs and scorches and compare them to the 2 fire mages above him. The low DPS mage has been doing a very high number of scorches, the top 2 mages have very few. So I speak to the mage class leader. As it turns out, the 2 fire mages towards the top of the DPS are very selfish and immature players, who are more worried about topping DPS meters than doing their job. They won't scorch. So the mage at the bottom keeps up the scorch rotations to keep fire vulnarability up. So the 2 fire mages doing better DPS are actually poor players. The one doing the scorching is the better DPS, sacrificing his own DPS to help other fire users in the raid. He gets preferential raid invites. A hunter is consistently lower on the DPS meters, while 2 other hunters are up near the top. Looking at his shot rotation, it becomes clear he is specced Survival. Accordingly, his role is to boost raid performance with his buffs, and provides probably a more useful raid function that the 2 MM hunters. |
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January 31, 2008, 06:40 PM
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#16 (permalink) |
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Re: Damage Meters?
Geez, the poor guy just asked which type of damage meters people use since he was getting conflicting data reports. |
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January 31, 2008, 08:02 PM
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#17 (permalink) | ||
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Re: Damage Meters?
Quote:
Quote:
I said "consistently underperform." Looking at a bad night or a specialty CC or anti-caster/melee fight does not count as being consistent. Raid debuff duty, specialty talent specs, and gear differences can account for some dps differences which is to be expected but that only goes so far. A dps class that always does half the dps as his counterparts is probably doing something wrong. A 250dps hunter isnt going to work when you have bosses with soft/hard enrage timers. To use an early raid boss example, Gruul is going to be much harder if you've got raiders doing 1/3rd the dps as others. |
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