Paladin: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin

DrkSnpr14 · August 26, 2008, 02:18 PM

What can I say that hasn't already been said by anyone who's played a Palladin in the wrath beta. AWESOME!

Here's why. After testing min max in holy, I decided to try a full hybrid build, and the results are blowing my mind! I'm now a beliver in the shockadin, and I am confident they will dish out the pain come wrath.

My current spec at level 70 in the beta is 31/0/30 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft with my 10 more points to level 80 going to be spent in ret getting a nice new CC, repentance. This may be hard to wrap your head around, since on live realms, this would be a joke, but bear with me.

With the changes to spell power, and crit affecting spells and melle, it's possible to have a shockadin stacked up the wazoo with crit dealing massive damage, as well as being able to heal as hard as a full holy pally in healing gear. On top of that, holy shock now has a much shorter cooldown, and the sheith of light and judgment of the wise talent in ret just seems to fit TO perfectly with this.

To make things crasier, I'm in full Holy gear from BC, and I can dps the HELL out of anything with critting holy shocks all over the place. I'm slamming people with almsot 3k white holy shocks, that can crit for much higher. Plus, if you stack al the holy crit abiltiies in the holy tree on top of the crit talents in ret, and then add all the crit from your gear, it's going to get a little crazy.

To illistrate my point, I was ont he beta palladin forums, and a druid decided to come ont the forum and cry that ret pallys are unkillable now, since they are healing like holy pallys. WoW Forums - Ret Heals? (Logical post)

With the nice new abilities, and lovely trees, I'm pretty sure I will be making my Paladin my main for the expansion. I still have a little hope they will start paying attention to warlocks before launch and fix some glaring problems, but so far it's been a failure. All the more reason to join the light

Rleab · August 26, 2008, 03:03 PM

One of the posters is right...a moonkin would benefit lots from this too. They have a ton of armor and spec'd properly they could benefit from spell power and crit equally for healing and DPS now. Maybe not to the extent of a shockadin, but it's gonna be interesting seeing blizzard try to balance this now with 2 classes having the potential to double dip in PvP roles.

Theleb · August 26, 2008, 03:10 PM

Imaganing a Resto Druid with more DPS, or a Retadin healing like Holy is quite ridiculous, even without considering new talents - I firmly believe that Paladins will be amongst the pre-eminent PvP classes.

Zoloft · August 26, 2008, 03:25 PM

I'm glad I decided to level up my paladin then.

Elricc · August 28, 2008, 05:56 PM

Damn I knew I took my pally to 70 for something other than fast herb gathering hehe.

Redmage · August 28, 2008, 07:53 PM

I haven't seen one in action myself, but from what I have heard and read, paladins are doing GREAT in Beta. But it is also likely that they will be tone down before launch, see the following quote, a question to Tom Chilton.

Quote:

What about the paladin, is there any plans to nerf the DPS Paladin's damage from what it is on beta servers now?

Quote:

T.C. - We are just now beginning on going through the heavy tuning phase, we really don't do that until the end of the beta generally, where we start going through all of the classes and finding the things that are way out of balance and there's no doubt right now that the ret paladins are doing a lot more damage than what we would expect.

Actually, I don't know how I feel about this. I think the respectable changes made to Ret Pallies throughout BC is the right direction. However, the aspect of a Ret Pally maintaining high burst/dps output while immune for 12 secs is pretty wrong.

The way that Wrath of the Lich King is shaping up, you have a Ret Pally that has a strong immune mechanic, a high controlled DPS and burst output, and now with strong healing abilities. God Mode? :-)

Vaell · August 28, 2008, 08:17 PM

Depends if Chaos Bolt can remove their bubble... as of now it can apparently ignore it. ^^

Redmage · August 28, 2008, 08:45 PM

But that's the thing. My level 70 Chaos Bolt non Crit does 2.2k or so in Beta. That means if they bubble at 2.3k health, I STILL cannot kill them, and the Chaos Bolt becomes mana wasted as I cannot do further damage. All Chaos Bolt will do is make pallies bubble earlier (if they know they are fighting a destro lock (Shadowfury) )

NOW if it actually REMOVES the bubble, then I think it is worthy of a 51 pt talent. As of now, I think it only pierce through it (though I am not 100% sure about this).

If we can have ways to either ensure a Crit, then maybe it will be useful. Empowered Imp does this now, but it is rather unlikely that we will be PvPing with an IMP.

My alternative idea is to make our destro 51 pt talent a Buff.

Chaos Form

You gain Chaos Form. All damage done in the next 6 sec will ignore all resistances/immunity/absorption mechanic.

Cooldown 1 minute. (or whatever is balanced)

The downside of this is that the PvE application will be even less than today.

El Tanakh · August 28, 2008, 08:54 PM

I wasn't much of a PvPer when BC arrived, but have read threads that cataloged paladins as the PvP healer in the early days, then after a series if nerfs, bad itemization and gear scaling they are reduced to the lest viable. Last time i was at a pally forum they were hoping this time it will be more balanced.

August 26, 2008, 02:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
DrkSnpr14 Your Overlord Character Info Gallaira 70 Undead Warlock Laughing Skull US PvP Guild: Death and Destruction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/2/59	Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin What can I say that hasn't already been said by anyone who's played a Palladin in the wrath beta. AWESOME! Here's why. After testing min max in holy, I decided to try a full hybrid build, and the results are blowing my mind! I'm now a beliver in the shockadin, and I am confident they will dish out the pain come wrath. My current spec at level 70 in the beta is 31/0/30 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft with my 10 more points to level 80 going to be spent in ret getting a nice new CC, repentance. This may be hard to wrap your head around, since on live realms, this would be a joke, but bear with me. With the changes to spell power, and crit affecting spells and melle, it's possible to have a shockadin stacked up the wazoo with crit dealing massive damage, as well as being able to heal as hard as a full holy pally in healing gear. On top of that, holy shock now has a much shorter cooldown, and the sheith of light and judgment of the wise talent in ret just seems to fit TO perfectly with this. To make things crasier, I'm in full Holy gear from BC, and I can dps the HELL out of anything with critting holy shocks all over the place. I'm slamming people with almsot 3k white holy shocks, that can crit for much higher. Plus, if you stack al the holy crit abiltiies in the holy tree on top of the crit talents in ret, and then add all the crit from your gear, it's going to get a little crazy. To illistrate my point, I was ont he beta palladin forums, and a druid decided to come ont the forum and cry that ret pallys are unkillable now, since they are healing like holy pallys. WoW Forums - Ret Heals? (Logical post) With the nice new abilities, and lovely trees, I'm pretty sure I will be making my Paladin my main for the expansion. I still have a little hope they will start paying attention to warlocks before launch and fix some glaring problems, but so far it's been a failure. All the more reason to join the light

August 26, 2008, 03:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rleab Member Character Info Rleab 70 Warlock US PvE	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin One of the posters is right...a moonkin would benefit lots from this too. They have a ton of armor and spec'd properly they could benefit from spell power and crit equally for healing and DPS now. Maybe not to the extent of a shockadin, but it's gonna be interesting seeing blizzard try to balance this now with 2 classes having the potential to double dip in PvP roles.

August 26, 2008, 03:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin Imaganing a Resto Druid with more DPS, or a Retadin healing like Holy is quite ridiculous, even without considering new talents - I firmly believe that Paladins will be amongst the pre-eminent PvP classes.

August 26, 2008, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zoloft Lurker Character Info Zork 62 Undead Warlock Zuluhed US PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 9/43/1	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin I'm glad I decided to level up my paladin then.

August 28, 2008, 05:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Elricc Member Character Info Elricc 70 Human Warlock Barthilas Oceania PvP Guild: Grumpy Old Men Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 29/21/11	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin Damn I knew I took my pally to 70 for something other than fast herb gathering hehe.

August 28, 2008, 08:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Vaell Moderator Character Info Vaell 70 Blood Elf Warlock Scarshield Legion Euro RP PvP Guild: Void Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 00/14/47	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin Depends if Chaos Bolt can remove their bubble... as of now it can apparently ignore it. ^^

August 28, 2008, 08:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Redmage Member Character Info Ris 70 Gnome Warlock Bloodhoof US PvE Guild: Council of Arathor Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/14/47	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin But that's the thing. My level 70 Chaos Bolt non Crit does 2.2k or so in Beta. That means if they bubble at 2.3k health, I STILL cannot kill them, and the Chaos Bolt becomes mana wasted as I cannot do further damage. All Chaos Bolt will do is make pallies bubble earlier (if they know they are fighting a destro lock (Shadowfury) ) NOW if it actually REMOVES the bubble, then I think it is worthy of a 51 pt talent. As of now, I think it only pierce through it (though I am not 100% sure about this). If we can have ways to either ensure a Crit, then maybe it will be useful. Empowered Imp does this now, but it is rather unlikely that we will be PvPing with an IMP. My alternative idea is to make our destro 51 pt talent a Buff. Chaos Form You gain Chaos Form. All damage done in the next 6 sec will ignore all resistances/immunity/absorption mechanic. Cooldown 1 minute. (or whatever is balanced) The downside of this is that the PvE application will be even less than today.

August 28, 2008, 08:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
El Tanakh Character Info Njörðr 70 Tauren Druid Cho'gall US PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Next Expansion is more like Wrath of the Ret Palladin I wasn't much of a PvPer when BC arrived, but have read threads that cataloged paladins as the PvP healer in the early days, then after a series if nerfs, bad itemization and gear scaling they are reduced to the lest viable. Last time i was at a pally forum they were hoping this time it will be more balanced.