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The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions » Discussion Forums » PvP, Battlegrounds & Arenas » The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

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Old March 12, 2008, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)

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Ultimáte
70 Undead Warlock
Daggorspine US PvP
The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

1. Chain Fearing: I challenge any 70 lock who pvps to tell me that chain fearing still works. Sorry to say folks, but as of 2.2 that strat is go bye bye. Not only had seduce, fear, and soon horror (possible 2.4) been put on the same timer, but shadow resistance is becoming more prevalent than the common cold (fear ward, TB trink, etc., rest. coefficient).
2. Sl/Sl: At least against melee classes (save an enhance shammy) Sl/SL has lost its promise of "survivability". With the rogues damage now boosted nearly 30%, the warriors damage and hamstring following the same accord (check 2.4 leaks: here), the chances of us using CoEx or Sl'ing our way through the damage is quite slim. Not to mention the fact that damage sucks (try to see how long it takes you to kill an air elemental). This spec is going fast down the window.
3. NF/BL: The theory was that if you went destructive reach, grim reach, and then got the rest of the points into all possible avenues of insta-sb you could kill anything with just the power of ruin and distance (Drakedog). This spec failed about 5 minutes after it was implemented: once again the OP hamstring and sprint demolished this, and why on earth would you run away from a hunter (o wait well it doesnt matter where you run anymore ).

Mages still suck, but at least they dont get shredded every time a melee feels like eating a clothie for breakfast (well assuming their frost ).

The only spec I see still viable is 41/0/20... but for how much longer?
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Old March 12, 2008, 01:20 PM   #2 (permalink)

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Snacker
80 Gnome Warlock
Zirkel des Cenarius Euro RP Guild: Heavens Fall
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

- in general: every class you mentioned belongs to our "counter-class". That's fine with me. In my opinion we were overpowered in certain abilities (e.g. chainfear), so some of the nerfs were necessary
- 2. we'll see what really goes live...

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Old March 12, 2008, 01:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Gritz
80 Orc Warlock
Eldre'Thalas US PvE
Guild: Fate
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrenx View Post

The only spec I see still viable is 41/0/20


41/0/20 is a great PvE build, but a sub-par PvP build - it lacks soul link.

2x/3x/0, 20/41/0 and 5/41/15 are all still viable PvP builds.
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Old March 12, 2008, 09:15 PM   #4 (permalink)

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Ultimáte
70 Undead Warlock
Daggorspine US PvP
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritz View Post


41/0/20 is a great PvE build, but a sub-par PvP build - it lacks soul link.

2x/3x/0, 20/41/0 and 5/41/15 are all still viable PvP builds.
Oh yah your right sorry about that, typo, i mean 41/7/13
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Old March 12, 2008, 09:42 PM   #5 (permalink)

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Risotto
80 Gnome Warlock
Perenolde US PvE
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrenx View Post
1. Chain Fearing: I challenge any 70 lock who pvps to tell me that chain fearing still works. Sorry to say folks, but as of 2.2 that strat is go bye bye. Not only had seduce, fear, and soon horror (possible 2.4) been put on the same timer, but shadow resistance is becoming more prevalent than the common cold (fear ward, TB trink, etc., rest. coefficient).
Hmm, I would argue that chain fearing still works in terms of buying time. It is just that one can no longer expect doing the kind of damage that we once did with chain fearing. But yeah, the amount of counters to fear are now pretty staggering. However, I don't think fear is obsolete.

Quote:

2. Sl/Sl: At least against melee classes (save an enhance shammy) Sl/SL has lost its promise of "survivability". With the rogues damage now boosted nearly 30%, the warriors damage and hamstring following the same accord (check 2.4 leaks: here), the chances of us using CoEx or Sl'ing our way through the damage is quite slim. Not to mention the fact that damage sucks (try to see how long it takes you to kill an air elemental). This spec is going fast down the window.
I don't utilize this spec, so no comments here. It is still one of the most survivable specs out there though......

Quote:
3. NF/BL: The theory was that if you went destructive reach, grim reach, and then got the rest of the points into all possible avenues of insta-sb you could kill anything with just the power of ruin and distance (Drakedog). This spec failed about 5 minutes after it was implemented: once again the OP hamstring and sprint demolished this, and why on earth would you run away from a hunter (o wait well it doesnt matter where you run anymore ).
Hmm, there are 2 variants to this, a 19/0/42 NF/Shadowfury build, and a 22/5/34 Siphone Life/Backlash. I have used both and I think they are not really that helpless vs melee. Melee cannot heal (or cannot heal well), and the burst nature of these builds can out dps melee. You mentioned distance as being a factor in these fights. Well that is true and not true. Charge/intercept/shadowstep/sprint/scatter shot/intimidation coupled with hamstring/crippling poison/wing clip means a lock basically have no control over distance.

What I have found, especially vs warriors as destruction is NOT to run away and try to dance in that range where they cannot intercept and one is still out of meele range. I have found that warriors combo off their intercepts very well, and one must deny them intercept opportuniteis as much as possible. During that dance time, the backlash procs and the nightfall procs can deal very good burst damage.
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Old March 12, 2008, 10:11 PM   #6 (permalink)

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Banatu
80 Blood Elf Rogue
Kel'Thuzad US PvP
Guild: Massacre
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

I don't see anything in the patch notes that says melee is becoming 30% more badass.. =3
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Old April 21, 2008, 06:43 PM   #7 (permalink)

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Melonora
51 Undead Warlock
The Forgotten Coast US PvP
Guild: Uzi
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

After about 2~3 fears, the enemy is immune. Two fears are enough for me to kill him and I'm affliction specced. And maybe after these nerfs, Huntards and Rogues will stop setting the OP blame on warlocks, (which I don't believe is true).
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Old May 12, 2008, 08:51 PM   #8 (permalink)

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Potatosoup
70 Gnome Warlock
Kel'Thuzad PvP
Guild: The Yawning Dogs
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by melxc8 View Post
After about 2~3 fears, the enemy is immune. Two fears are enough for me to kill him and I'm affliction specced. And maybe after these nerfs, Hunters and Rogues will stop setting the OP blame on warlocks, (which I don't believe is true).
Hunters are without doubt the most over powered class in my opinion, they have a mana drain which is non-interruptable and instant cast, they have a mortal strike ability, they are capable of dispelling, they are capable of a lot of CC, an interrupt, immunity to snares and CC and the disgusting snake trap. None of this is on any cooldown longer than 2 minutes.

A rogue without cooldowns is a dead rogue. You can get the most poorly geared warlock in the world to spam CoEx on a full s3/t6/whatever rogue, and if the rogue can't sprint/shadowstep/cloak to the warlock, he's toast.

edit: Back on topic.
I don't think Chain fear exists any more due to DR, PvP Trinkets, Fear Ward, and the MANY ways it can be silenced and interrupted.
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:20 AM   #9 (permalink)

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Alhazred
80 Undead Warlock
The Venture Co Euro RP PvP
Guild: Ordo Templi Orientis
Re: The updated list of obsolete tactics (against melee)

Chain fear may not exist (to tell the truth i was not playing wow when it did) BUT 2 well timed fears in each opponent really do help. In short, i too don't think Fear has become obsolete.
I think it's the Necrosis addon that when you select a target it let's out a satanic laugh when the target is Fear immune so that really helps me a lot. All of these fear countering talents do not last forever. The way i see it, i need Soul Link to stay alive that much to actually cast a Fear since kiting melee classes around is the tactic that has become obsolete, we are pinned down to take the damage.
I'm not copmlaining, i like the warlock tank attitude: "you want to kill me? you'll have to chew through 13k HP + 20% damage reduction + Death Coil + Fear + Healthstone", so that's pretty hard to digest, even for breakfast ;)
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Last edited by thef00l; May 13, 2008 at 04:41 AM..
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