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February 10, 2009, 12:51 PM
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#11 (permalink) |
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Re: I can fix PVP
This is a very good read. I understand both your sides. I look at the top end locks in arena and 97% are affliction. I have played affliction, its a different style than what you were used to as SL/SL and it can be fun but it is really gear dependent. If you want to be a competitive lock.. look no lower than 800 resi. that is over 200K in honor grinding. There was something to be said about if you were a raider and brought in the gear then good luck to the guy that just bg's all day. I feel you almost have to do both to be as successful. You can't be casual in either area. I think the issue with our fears is not that it is underpowered. Honestly its something we can still spam and the ridiculous pushback issue is no more. I just think we need "a moment" like every other class can have. I pretty much untouchable moment to say "let the pain stop". Demonic bubble of sorts. Take 1/4 of my life for it if you wish, make me sac my pet and take my life. At that point I am ok. We can figure out a way to get a new pet. Just something that says leave me alone for 10 seconds. |
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February 11, 2009, 12:21 PM
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#12 (permalink) |
Status: NOT IN THE FACE!!!!
Character Info
Gritz 80 Orc Warlock Eldre'Thalas US PvE Guild: Fate Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: Destro |
Re: I can fix PVP
PvP was broken prior to the introduction of resilience, with PvE raiders tearing through all but Rank 11 or higher geared players. Burst was a huge problem for me when I was gearing up for PvP @ 80, but now that I have stacked (at the expense of every other stat) about 1050 resilience, I can soak the burst and not only survive as Affliction, but actually top the charts in damage again. Remember that Resilience fills many holes: Reduces incoming Physical and Magic Crit Chance Reduces incoming Physical and Magic Crit Damage Reduces incoming DoT Damage Reduces incoming Mana Drains Armor does the following: Reduces incoming Physical Damage Stamina does the following: Increase the amount of damage you can take before dying Stam + Armor simply does not (and should not, IMHO) do what resilience does. |
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February 11, 2009, 12:54 PM
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#13 (permalink) |
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Re: I can fix PVP
My issue hasn't been with getting crit. It has to do with the fact that non-crit attacks from TG warriors duel-wielding Armageddon's killing me in two swings without critting. That's my point. I know people with 1000 resilience. They still get destroyed by melee. They just don't get crit while that happens. |
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February 11, 2009, 05:47 PM
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#14 (permalink) |
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Status: NOT IN THE FACE!!!!
Character Info
Gritz 80 Orc Warlock Eldre'Thalas US PvE Guild: Fate Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: Destro |
Re: I can fix PVP
I think the best way to address the huge non-crits that make up a bulk of the damage is through talents, unfortunately. I have yet to hear a viable way to add non-crit DR though gear itemization that wouldn't require a re-work of the PvE system as well. Adding 'reduces non-crit damage taken by n%' to a few talents across clothies and leather/mail casters would probably be the most feasible solution. |
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February 11, 2009, 06:02 PM
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#15 (permalink) | |
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Re: I can fix PVP
Quote:
There's no means to buff Magic Damage resistances without wearing resistances of that school. As locks, we've always had talents to lower this damage, and actually at this very moment, you could respec MD and Nether Protection, and all-in-all be pretty worthless but be immune to just about everybody who tried to cast something against you. What we've lost is working damage mitigation against melee: Soul Link doesn't count for squat right now because there's just too much damage. You can't drain through the damage because, again, there's just too much damage. Which is my point: 1) Dump resilience as a stat overall, and take those item points and put Armor on our PVP gear rather than nerf everybody's burst. 2) Acknowledge that a talent tree will always be better for PVP. 3) Buff that tree accordingly for some offensive talents to allow the living to kill things. |
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February 11, 2009, 10:25 PM
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#16 (permalink) | ||
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Character Info
Risotto 80 Gnome Warlock Perenolde US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/20/51 |
Re: I can fix PVP
Quote:
Quote:
The concept of a PvP tree is outdated, and Blizzard has been working hard to move away from it. Look at DKs, there isn't really a dedicated DPS or Tanking trees. All are viable for both functions, and that is the same for their PvP viability. Heck, even Prot warriors are not useless in PvP nowdays. If anything, we are likely to see all trees to be somewhat viable in PvPs. They are actually going to BUFF Priest HOLY Tree for more PvP viability, as mentioned in the patch notes. For locks, fixing PvP would mean fixing immunities, IMHO. This is especially glaring right now when resilience is not maxed, and we cannot tank at all. A smart DK can chain strangulate, anti-magic shell, lich borne, use his trinket and will of the forsaken (if undead) to completely nullify our major means of combat, which is fear. BM hunters and Berserked Feral druids can attack us while fear immune for 15 sec plus. A decent rogue can easily chain his cheap shot, kidney shot, and use CLOS offensively to burst us down without the need to even use vanish/blind.... Even if you buff armor, it is not going to change much. I think fixing immunities will just make things more fun for all parties ...involved.....
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
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February 12, 2009, 03:46 PM
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#17 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Illeandrys 80 Blood Elf Warlock Frostmourne Oceania PvP Guild: Loot the Core Hound Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/40/31 |
Re: I can fix PVP
I definitely agree with Redmage. Things like giving resilience across-the-board damage reduction or introducing magic resistances to PvP gear have too many PvE ramifications for it to be viable. Blizzard's attempted balancing of different specs for different classes has definitely been a good move. Not being pigeonholed into SL/SL is awesome. That said, though, Haunt/SL now seems to be the Arena spec of choice, especially for 2s. Obviously, there is going to be a certain spec or small range of specs that will enjoy greater success in Arena and a certain set that will enjoy greater success in raiding. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't think the large majority of players do (unless you just MUST raid as Meta). CC is definitely a little bit undervalued in Arena play right now, at least before higher ratings brackets. Players definitely seem to favor burst damage because it's just easier to execute. While I do agree that Warlocks need more tools against immunity, I don't think that a straight nerf of immunity mechanics would be viable for overall class balance. CC immunity is a big part of some specific class/spec play styles, just as CC is a big part of the Warlock play style. If BM hunters weren't CC immune, they wouldn't be Arena viable at all. You can argue that Turn Evil vs Metamorphosis should be nerfed in that regard, but Metamorphosis isn't quite as spec-defining (from my limited experience) as some people take it to be. |
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February 12, 2009, 06:58 PM
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#18 (permalink) |
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Status: NOT IN THE FACE!!!!
Character Info
Gritz 80 Orc Warlock Eldre'Thalas US PvE Guild: Fate Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: Destro |
Re: I can fix PVP
@ Trajik I definately see what you mean about non-crit damage - after a long stint as Destro, I didn't really notice how OMGWTFBBG Arcane Mages are - I literally got 3-shot, through 1047 resilience (mounted, so no SL) by an Arcane Mage. First was a 8k crit, followed by two ~5.5k HITS. I gotta admit, my jaw dropped - I was riding full speed past this guy and just got deaded right then and there. Of course, I spent the rest of the BG seeking him out and returning the favor (Spell lock->fear right off the bat to prevent the Arcane Barrage pwnage). |
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February 13, 2009, 01:09 AM
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#19 (permalink) |
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Re: I can fix PVP
Rogue and Mage burst is out of control. My point is that if the non-crit damage is that high, what is the resilience doing for you anyway? |
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February 13, 2009, 01:27 AM
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#20 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Risotto 80 Gnome Warlock Perenolde US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/20/51 |
Re: I can fix PVP
Quote:
You are right, burst is out of control, and that's why mutilate and Arcane barrage are getting the good ol nerfbat. I am not saying resilience solves all problems. it doesn't. It remains a good solution to curb PvP damage without affecting PvE.
__________________
What if what they really want is for us to herd our demons back into the void like we're doing? Because if we re-roll DKs, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won! |
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