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August 20, 2010, 12:47 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jiraiyah Character Info Jiraiyah 85 Blood Elf Warlock Hydraxis US PvE Guild: Represent Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction	Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why? I'm really not debating the usefulness of health funnnel. Like I said, I've had it before and will probably add it back in later, when I ever use it, but for right now I'm just not using it. Eradication is unequivocally useful. In every aspect. Faster fears. Faster haunts. Faster global cooldowns. Faster DoT ticks. You could make an argument that it doesn't proc as often as you might like but it is most definitely useful when it does. Personally I don't think the proc rate is all that ridiculously low. I just can't see any reasonable argument against it. And I'm doing a lot more than instant-dots and fearing. Maybe in your team your damage is just gravy, I don't know, but I spend a decent amount of time casting haunt and unstable affliction and I need to in order to succeed. I can play around with insta-dots and fears until eradication procs, unload dots and fear for the kill. Especially against treeforms, it can make the difference.

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August 20, 2010, 01:33 AM

#12 (permalink)

Supernex

Status: Subscriber

Character Info
Supernex
90 Human Warlock
Akama US PvP
Guild: Press Start
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction

Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiftxfox

Point why erradication is useless because you probably won't be casting a lot just fearing and dot'ing up the chance's of it proccing are low.

Eradication is up for A LOT of the time in matches, A LOT...and it makes a significant difference. Faster Fears are very welcome, and the extra damage is a great help especially when you are playing healer/Lock in 2v2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiftxfox

and health funnel isnt necessary unless your going against a team that understands soullink.

Which is everybody. I doubt there are 1 in 100 teams that don't realize what Soul Link does. Improved Health Funnel has won games for me. In fact, I was playing some 2v2 earlier, where Fel Dom was on CD (for the second time that match, lol), and the Lock was trying to kill my pet (again), their Druid Cycloned my Shaman and I was just barely able to keep my pet up long enough for a timely Spell Lock on the Druid when he was re-casting Cyclone on my Shaman, thus buying time for my Shaman to get heals on both me and my Fel Hunter, (which we were both almost dead)...we won that match, and had it not been for Improved Health Funnel my pet would've died, then my Shaman would've been re-Cycloned, and I would've died shortly thereafter.

There's a reason why all the top Warlocks in arena take Improved Health Funnel, (as well as Eradication.)

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August 20, 2010, 01:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
Swiftxfox Character Info Swiftxfox 80 Blood Elf Warlock Frostwolf US PvP Guild: FYSK Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why? What i'm getting at super is that i've gone against teams that wont' even look at my pet, i think my pet has only died because i use glyph of soul link so i have to re summon it, i personally think health funnel is good but i've never had a problem with them CC'ing me and going for my pet. That's just personal reference, and eradication you need to be casting for it to proc yes? It's not often you cast shadowbolts mid fight i see where your going with this though, because if it does proc its amazing fears/dps i'm just against it because I don't trust it to proc at the right times. __________________ an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind - Ghandi

August 20, 2010, 02:00 AM

#14 (permalink)

Supernex

Status: Subscriber

Character Info
Supernex
90 Human Warlock
Akama US PvP
Guild: Press Start
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction

Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiftxfox

What i'm getting at super is that i've gone against teams that wont' even look at my pet, i think my pet has only died because i use glyph of soul link so i have to re summon it, i personally think health funnel is good but i've never had a problem with them CC'ing me and going for my pet.

Well, at some point you will find it to be a major issue. If you spend any time on Arena Junkies you will see what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiftxfox

That's just personal reference, and eradication you need to be casting for it to proc yes? It's not often you cast shadowbolts mid fight i see where your going with this though, because if it does proc its amazing fears/dps i'm just against it because I don't trust it to proc at the right times.

Ah ha! This is the problem right there! You misunderstood the talent Eradication! Eradication procs from Corruption ticks! The more you use Corruption, the more Eradication will proc, thus being a VERY essential Affliction talent, as it will help you get in those necessary Fears, UA's, and Haunts, (also will significantly improve both Drain Life and Drain Soul).

__________________

August 22, 2010, 10:41 AM

#15 (permalink)

GTL

Character Info
Hangukin
80 Orc Warlock
Frostmane US PvP

Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiraiyah

Hey guys, I decided to jump on the Affliction bandwagon and lovin it again. I sure do miss shadowfury, but I am one tough bastard to kill...

Anyway, I've noticed people are still putting in the single point into shadow embrace and I have to question the point of that. I realize it used to be used that way to get an extra aff debuff for improved drains and whatnot but since those are capped at 3 debuffs, why bother wasting the point?

I've been going with this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I've seen the debates between death's embrace and eradication but this way you can just get both. I've debated on getting improved felhunter instead- that's significantly more damage and pet self healing- but I just can't see the point in still putting in the 1 pt. to shadow embrace these days. I'm happy to be proven wrong though. Lemme know.

________________________________---

PS, welcoming glyph advice. I am still using shadowflame as a leftover from destruction but I'm finding that to be redundant with curse of exaustion. It's still useful but I'm thinking I can do better.

Obviously quick decay is a must. The minors are obvious as well. For the other two, I was leaning towards soul link and howl of terror for survivability, or corruption for a little extra burst (which would probably replace HoT). What are our thoughts on drain life glyph? Worth it in conjunction with soul link?

Death's Embrace is kinda crappeh, it requires you to re-cast dots AFTER they're below 35% and maintain while they land and the survivability portion is similarly crappy due to interrupt.

Eradication is mandatory, no real way about it :P.

1 Point in Shadows embrace is just for another debuff and dot protection, some people choose to put a few extra in dependant on comp (spriest/dk partner teams). My spec is a little whacky right now, by choice though just messin around till i get back from afghanistan.

I suggest against Darkpact/imp fel hunter. Your fel hunter should MOST of the time be passive/follow with a mouseover shadowbite macro for totem stomping or combat sustaining purposes. Often times forcing it to stay if you know a priest is running at you for a Psychic scream or a lock with iHoT.

Don't underestimate Sflame, it's important for peeling purposes especially if against a decurser. If playing 2's with a healer I would personally go for Quick Decay/Sflame/Corruption. 2's with double dps QD/Sl/Sl or QD/Slink/Sflame or HoT.
For 3's I feel HoT is pretty mandatory and the burst from Corr becomes a little redundant, thus best glyphs becoming QD/HoT/Sflame. Of course theres always exceptions to the rule and playstyle to consider. If you were playing something like Double healer lock (disc/holy/lock) I would probably go Decay/sflame/corr.

Sorry my advice is a bit of a mess, i'll be making some comprehensive guides in both afflic/destru once i get back stateside with video/voice.

__________________
"Why don't dots go away when the warlock dies?"
"I killed the hooker that gave me aids, does that mean I'm cured now?"

August 23, 2010, 05:51 AM

#16 (permalink)

Jiraiyah

Character Info
Jiraiyah
85 Blood Elf Warlock
Hydraxis US PvE
Guild: Represent
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction

Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTL

No qualms here. I only added death's embrace to offset the shadow embrace before changing it again. Though, I disagree on it's total uselessness. I've found that re-upping the insta-dots is helpful when your target is being healed and channeling drain like when you and your target are low with the glyph can be a damn-near full heal. Of course it's far too situational to spend 3 points in so I agree that it is not recommended for pvp.

Quote:

1 Point in Shadows embrace is just for another debuff and dot protection, some people choose to put a few extra in dependant on comp (spriest/dk partner teams). My spec is a little whacky right now, by choice though just messin around till i get back from afghanistan.

Highly, highly recommend that if you're going to spend one point, spend 3. That, really was my point in this thread. It's a major difference when you can get all three stacks up. 9% more damage and 18% reduced HoT effect means dead trees. Even against other targets, it can be the difference between killing your opponent or hurting it really badly before you die. If I could spare 2 more points, I would get all 5.

Quote:

I suggest against Darkpact/imp fel hunter. Your fel hunter should MOST of the time be passive/follow with a mouseover shadowbite macro for totem stomping or combat sustaining purposes. Often times forcing it to stay if you know a priest is running at you for a Psychic scream or a lock with iHoT.

I wouldn't even think of getting dark pact. It's almost completely useless entirely, except marginally useful in conjunction with imp felpup in a PvE setting. But even then, lifetap pretty much handles the job. I really don't lose that much HP considering the mana I get back.

I never considered not having the felpup attacking. Seems like a pretty simple solution to the timing problems I've been having with spell lock. Still, seems like a decent chunk of damage missing, but my mouseover pet attack button works just fine on enemies as well as totems :P

Quote:

Don't underestimate Sflame, it's important for peeling purposes especially if against a decurser. If playing 2's with a healer I would personally go for Quick Decay/Sflame/Corruption. 2's with double dps QD/Sl/Sl or QD/Slink/Sflame or HoT.
For 3's I feel HoT is pretty mandatory and the burst from Corr becomes a little redundant, thus best glyphs becoming QD/HoT/Sflame. Of course theres always exceptions to the rule and playstyle to consider. If you were playing something like Double healer lock (disc/holy/lock) I would probably go Decay/sflame/corr.

Oh, don't get me wrong on glyph of shadowflame. When I was destro I was about to come into these very boards to make a gush post about how I think it's the single greatest glyph in the entire game. But I'm 2's with double DPS and ended up going with QD/SL/SL, thanks for confirming that I am not stupid for going with that. I'm pretty happy with that combination. I just found I wasn't using it often enough as affliction to waste a glyph slot. With destro, it's really the only option.

I really had a hard time not going with HoT glyph. At some point I may swap something out because I do find myself relying on that spell an awful lot just because of the insta-cast. I have a 3's team as well and may consider changing it up. I'll experiment more with shadowflame as well just to see if I can find more uses for it.

Quote:

Sorry my advice is a bit of a mess, i'll be making some comprehensive guides in both afflic/destru once i get back stateside with video/voice.

To you and everyone else that has commented on this thread, thanks a ton for all of the advice! After trying it out for a few days, I'm finding myself missing shadowfury less and less (Ok, that's a lie. I still fn love that spell). I am FAR tougher to kill now and since getting the hang of it, we're doing a lot better in the arena. And in the battlegrounds I'm a friggin god of death. Haven't had less than 15 KB's in who knows how long (same as I was with destro but with half the deaths) and am almost always #1 in damage (usually 5-6th in destro), which, aside from a victory is really all I look for in a BG :P

Last edited by Jiraiyah; August 23, 2010 at 05:55 AM..

August 23, 2010, 08:11 AM

#17 (permalink)

GTL

Character Info
Hangukin
80 Orc Warlock
Frostmane US PvP

Re: 1 pt. Shadow embrace... why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiraiyah

It all comes down to your parter, with a Fmage or Rogue in double dps 2's, your partner puts out more slows more frequently then you can count. Even as destru, if slows arn't required you could even swap to GoCorr for that added RNG bursty feel (since destru has added survivability through MC/nether prot) dropping soul link (immo/conflag/corr).

__________________
"Why don't dots go away when the warlock dies?"
"I killed the hooker that gave me aids, does that mean I'm cured now?"

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