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The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions
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November 11, 2011, 06:34 PM
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#41 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Cribbage 85 Human Warlock Azuremyst |
Re: Demonology pvp
Yeah I see what you are saying, but there is still no way to force an interrupt. If someone wants to cast banish, sure I can blow spell lock or death coil, but equally I could fear them, banish their own pet, or even just eat the 8 secs and HoG them. Plus, the banish example is very different from the incinerate example, which you were using to illustrate the value of Emberstorm. Anyone who spell locks an incin has clearly wasted the CD. It's more debatable with Banish, as that actually is a fairly legitimate use of spell lock. I do agree about the uptime of meta and the fact that I spend a fair proportion of my time casting on the periphery. It's not as much as people might think, cos the ebb and flow of combat in BGs often means the periods between combat eat a lot of the meta CD. But when out of meta, I will usually focus on getting off HoGs, bolts and fears. That gives decent DPS, provides much needed CC coverage and also reduces the meta CD. I don't spread dot a huge amount at that point, as I think I have mentioned before in another thread. the build you posted is spot on. Like you said, move the 2 from emberstorm to D&G and you got my preferred demo PvP spec. |
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March 02, 2012, 04:45 PM
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#42 (permalink) |
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Re: Demonology pvp
Hello! I wanted to give this thread a bump as I find it very informative, but I was wondering if someone can look over my gear and give some input. I also have a few questions: Poirot @ Akama - Game Guide - World of Warcraft Mostly what I am wondering about is what enchants and gems I should be looking for, as well as what I can do to improve my glyphs and talent tree. I am not looking to enchant some of the ruthless pieces as I will be replacing them asap, but will definitely do something for my spellblade, at the least. I am also thinking of changing out the glyph of incinerate... the two that I feel strongest about keeping is the Meta glyph and Shadowflame. From 54 I leveled this toon straight through battlegrounds. It was not a pretty situation considering I spent most of my time in the graveyard because I was one shot so damn frequently. Since then I feel like I've become a good player, but I am trying to be better. Of course my BG strategy varies with who I am fighting, but for the most part what I try to always do is - If in active combat to stay in Meta form anytime it is not on CD -Usually open with Hand of Gul'Dan, followed by Immolate... however I have read it is better to get Immolate up first. Is there truth to this? - If I spam anything it would be shadowbolt. I use HoG as soon as it if off of CD. Last night I was excited that I played 3 BGs with other Demo warlocks. I very rarely see other demo warlocks in BGs. They were all alliance, but I thought if I stayed on them maybe I could see something they did differently that would be beneficial to me... The striking thing was that they did not go into Meta form as often as I did. In one BG I popped it at least 3x to the ally's demo 1x. My boyfriend (who is also my arena partner and a destro lock) said "It's probably because it's not a permanent thing and it has that cooldown. So they figure they'll only use it when it's absolutely needed. Of course in that scenario it almost never gets used!" Another thing I noticed is that the other demo locks spam Drain Life. I see affliction locks do this all the time, so I was surprised that not one, but TWO demo locks that I played were spamming it... once was in the tunnel in WSG where the lock feared me 3x one after the other then tried to fear me a 4th time. =/ In between he was spamming drain life. I had full health, he had less than half. The boyfriend was sitting next to me and watching, he said the lock was trying to use drain life as damage, which he doesn't believe is very effective. I think he's right, but am I missing something? Can demos use it for effective damage? I only ever use it if I am not at full health and the other person is at less than half... I wonder if I should try using it more? Thank you to anyone who took the time to read my babble.  I apologize if my questions are redundant or basic, but I am just trying to be the best player I can as a demo lock. My boyriend has been helpful, but he lives in his destro spec and even though demo is his secondary he is not very familiar with it.This thread is the closest I have found to a demonology PvP guide. No offense to anyone who frequents them, but I find the official WoW Warlock forums to be not so helpful. I have looked through the threads questioning demo PvP and the response is almost always to change the spec to affliction.  That is as unhelpful advice as it gets, I feel it is almost a cop out answer. Also, if anyone has any recommendations for demo PvP guides I would appreciate it. |
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March 02, 2012, 08:04 PM
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#43 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction |
Re: Demonology pvp
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft would probably be the ideal specc + glyphs, using incinerate as filler. I would suggest gearing for mastery as much as possible (out of your secondary stats, int is still king though) and using the moonwell chalice if you can be bothered to do the dailies, if not go with the on use trinket (as you currently do). Demo can deal with melee very well and, but sufers vs wizards. Meta makes Warriors your bitch, but a mage won't even flinch. That can be dealt with thoguh because your partner is destro. Liberal use of CoT when on the defensive as well as actively switching between the felguard and the felhunter is very important. During MWC makes you ridiculously strong during meta, I have seen some absolutely retarded numbers with that combination.
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Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business. |
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March 04, 2012, 02:47 PM
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#44 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Ruinessa 85 Undead Warlock Area 52 US PvE Guild: Forgotten FX Profile: Talent Tree: Demonology |
Re: Demonology pvp
D1re, wouldn't mastery stacking effectively make him or her a glass cannon? "A full haste reforge vs a full mastery reforge only results in a minor dps increase in favor of mastery." (per Darkzyrklord, although pve based, I can't imagine it would make a lick of difference in pvp) I don't know, just seems sitting there having to squeeze off ultra long cast times makes you hugely interruptible, greatly reduces your ability to move and maintain damage, and is very based on getting it done in meta. I'd rather stack all haste and have meta up more often through impending doom. also allows for faster immo's when yours gets dispelled. I'd run a slight alteration on the single target raid spec stacking haste if I went demo. just my 2 cents. |
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March 04, 2012, 06:06 PM
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#45 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction |
Re: Demonology pvp
Because you're a retri pala, only ranged. It doesn't make a difference in DPS over a 5 minute fight, mastery stacking vs haste stacking makes a massive difference in a 30 second fight with meta up for the entire duration. If you play demo it's about the burst, nothing else. Mastery stacking means massive burst. Huge burst. Your goal is not to beat their DPS, it's to ground their faces into a fine paste and then using it to paint the walls. This is best done by delivering ridiculous damage over a short period of time. Mastery vs. Haste depends on meta uptime. In PvP you either land a kill during meta or you lose.
__________________
Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business. |
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March 04, 2012, 06:57 PM
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#46 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Ruinessa 85 Undead Warlock Area 52 US PvE Guild: Forgotten FX Profile: Talent Tree: Demonology |
Re: Demonology pvp
understood. thank you for clarifying. |
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March 05, 2012, 02:00 PM
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#47 (permalink) |
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Re: Demonology pvp
Thank you for your replies. Kasha, while I LOVE the idea of decreased cast time, D1re is correct, I'm looking for that burst. A typical 2v2 arena match is over before my Meta form expires. A few occasions I go back into Blood Elf, but they are rare. One time in particular was because we killed a partner and the rogue stayed stealth, dragging it out. We could have took the time to look for him but instead (since we were out of combat) we life tapped and soul harvested while waiting for the purple crystals to pop up. Also, the great thing about Meta is that I'm practically a tanking Satan. It is amazing how much extra damage I can take from melee, and I usually keep my demon armor up (unless we're going against casters). This is especially good for us since most teams seem to target me first. I was also concerned about having to stand around and channel. When I finally got into arenas it turned out to not be as much of an issue as I thought it would. As soon as we get out in the BG we drop a portal. If melee approaches a quick shadowflame to the face and porting out seems to do the trick pretty well. That being said there have been several times when I got caught by a DK and just could not get away. D1re, I do find warriors, hunters, and sometimes DKs to be the easiest to take down. Our problem, as is expected, are healers. Especially pally healers. Right now what we do is when the fighting starts I pop meta and axe toss healer. We are banking that they will utilize their trinket, which about 50% of the time they do. My partner then does the majority of the CCs, I axe toss as soon as it is available. So far we've been able to take down a few healers with this method, but once a pally bubbles we just can't win. We talked about it last night and I don't think we are utilizing curses to the best of our advantage. We're going to go to the dummies first to test it out, but what we basically decided is that I would use curse of elements and he would use Tongues/weakness. We're also playing with the idea that if going against a healer/dps combo to CC the dps and go after the healer first. I would also hold off on meta until we get him down for the last burst. We did kind of play with it this last weekend with a tanking/healer combo. We were attacking the tank but not making a dent. We switched to the druid healer and was able to take him down fast. We lost that one anyway because I died and tanks have a ridiculous amount of self healing. >_> But we were close. D1re, you mention incinerate for a filler, can I ask why that would be better than shadowbolt? I see this come up all the time on the official forums, and over there they say that even with the glyph SB still put out more damage. My partner and I tested it a while ago, he thought they were pretty similar in amount, but I have still been relying on SB. Also, the moonwell chalice looks exactly like something I could utilize, unfortunately since I leveled through BGs the only thing I've done in Hyjal so far is the quest to open the port. I read on wowhead the dailies are described as "soul crushing", but it looks so worth it. Anymore advice on how we can faceroll in arena is very much appreciated. Edit--> One other thing I forgot to mention... I usually keep my felguard out the whole time, would it be better if I switched to the pup? Like I said, my partner usually handles the CC'ing of healers, I pick up the slack with the axe toss. He starts with his imp but will switch to pup if we are going against healers. He is also a player who any other time will use his succy, but for arenas he uses the imp. Last edited by Pansori; March 05, 2012 at 03:55 PM.. |
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April 04, 2012, 02:12 PM
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#48 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Cribbage 85 Human Warlock Azuremyst |
Re: Demonology pvp
I have not played WoW for 4 months, but I did extensively PvP my demo build while playing. I must admit, I vascillated between stacking mastery and haste. It actually didn't seem to make a huge difference to overall performance. However, I always used MWC. The main benefit for me in the haste was being able to get a HoG off reliably. One thing - I have been unable to determine whether haste affects Immo Aura ticks. If it does, that would undermine a bit the argument for mastery, because Immo is a big component of your burst in meta. |
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April 04, 2012, 03:18 PM
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#49 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction |
Re: Demonology pvp
During S9 when I was playing demo almost exclusively I favoured haste over mastery because the margins were smaller (a little haste vs a little mastery), Fel Armor was still good and I was aiming more for control and pressure than burst. Now we're 2 seasons later, you have access to more stats and the gameplay has changed. Now the difference between haste and mastery stacking is noticeable and with the change to our self healing we can not afford long matches as demo. If you were to play RBG's you should give haste some consideration though.
__________________
Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business. |
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April 24, 2012, 01:57 AM
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#50 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Ruinessa 85 Undead Warlock Area 52 US PvE Guild: Forgotten FX Profile: Talent Tree: Demonology |
Re: Demonology pvp
Yeah, demo absolutely sodomizes most clothes in RBGs I've noticed, but I've also tried porting some application from that into my arena experimenting....I was mostly curious to weigh haste build utilizing DA and defensive use of meta (as well as offensive obv). it's obviously entirely up to the RNG Gods whether your meta would be ready at the crucial moment when you're about to croak, but the overall damage reduction could be worth it? (question mark to denote it's 2AM and if that's a stupid idea please call me on it.) Also, could you explain the theory behind your haste versus mastery damage theory? I can understand if pvping with the MWC, but outside that, I can't imagine the lower amounts of secondary stats native to PVP gear alone giving a huge differential. I get that we're weighing more nukes versus heavier nukes, but for multi dotting purposes to put mana pressure up, I think it could be very comparable. |
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