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November 22, 2007, 02:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Agnar Character Info Agnar 80 Human Warlock Fenris US PvE	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? Heroics are not for the faint of heart. Everything hits harder and many cc's will not work that work in reg instances. The most important factor IMO is a good tank. Not only a good one but one that has good gear. Nothing will wipe you faster than a crappy tank. Next would be a good healer with lots of +heal and exp. Because everything hits harder you need bigger and better heals. CC is a must and each instance is different some require 3 cc and therefore some classes just arent going to work. I personally will not run heroics with people that I dont know. Blizz IMO has done many people a great disservice by lowering the keys to honored. The whole point of not getting them till revered was so that people had to actually put the time in the instances before they were granted a key to the harder ones. In order to truly be ready for heroics then you should be able to complete all the instances from each faction with NO Difficulty. If you cant complete Arc then you have no business in Heroic Mech for example. Also by running each instance multiple times you should be able to build a really good set of decent gear. Now you can get better crafted gear and that helps but nothing replaces the exp and gear you get from actually running the instances. So if you have just got your your key at honored then "No Offense" but you probably need a little more time in the instances. It should be said that getting to seventy is really only a small part of the game.

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November 22, 2007, 04:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
FooManChu55 Character Info Oprias 70 Blood Elf Warlock Kil'Jaden US PvP Guild: Tavia	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? First off, thank you for all your advice and thoughts Our tank has 11k health and 12k armor unbuffed: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...7jaeden&n=Kroe Our healer is +348 healing +244 mp5: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...aeden&n=Swirly Not sure if those two are enough as the "backbone" of our group. Jeeper44 you make an excellent point that heroics are different instances. Yes it is in the same setting, but it takes a different set of tactics. NewfiDave great tip regarding CoR/CoS fear kiting, never thought of doing that Looks like I have a bunch to learn regarding CC with my warlock. So is Kara similar to Heroics in difficulty? The other 5 we are running with are more experienced players, and a bit more geared then us, but just so have I some idea of what to expect come next Tuesday.

November 22, 2007, 04:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tannenbernie Character Info Powerbernie 70 Human Warlock Runetotem Euro PvE Guild: Shadow Ops Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 22/5/34	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? Funny enough im in the same situation. Played my warrior alt together with friends 1-70, just dinged 70 two weeks ago, did Kara attune and now going Heroic. Well, my tips for you: 1) Different from the other people i think that your group composition is fine, i dont think that you need a different team member or spec. 2) Concentrate on one Heroic, do that a couple of times to learn it. I strongly advice heroic underbog as you have Warlock and Mage. 3) CC is very important, Mage for sheep and Warlock for banish give you all you need in heroic Underbog. 4) OffTank is the key to success. Even with one opponent CCd you will encounter somne groups of 5 - and you can not tank 4 in a heroic. So as long as your overall equipment is not so good you will need an offtank. In your case a Retri Pally is just fine, he can offtank two mobs with no problem. 5) My own Tank is worse equipped than your is but still we were succesfull in heroic underbog, so i will assume its not the tank who is the problem. 6) Instead in my opinion the heroic stands and falls with the Healer. Im not sure what you mean with the stats you are giving for your druid, but he should have at least +1000 heal in level 70, then it will be fine. And i strongly disagree with those who said druids are the worst healers, resto druids rock and i saw them on top of healmeter for Raids many many times. Good luck __________________ Powerbernie Human Warlock Das Solare Imperium - DunMorogh (Euro PvE)

November 22, 2007, 04:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
Agnar Character Info Agnar 80 Human Warlock Fenris US PvE	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? sorry its late edited Last edited by Agnar; November 22, 2007 at 05:00 AM..

November 22, 2007, 05:00 AM	#15 (permalink)
Agnar Character Info Agnar 80 Human Warlock Fenris US PvE	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? Yeah based on those two you guys probably just need more practice. I however recommend Mech its a little easier than SP Except for the second boss which you can always skip and still get three badges. Plus last boss drops every tanks early fav The Sun Eater.

November 22, 2007, 06:09 AM

#16 (permalink)

Duchovny

Character Info
Duchovny
70 Human Warlock
Grim Batol Euro PvP
Guild: Portugallia

Re: Heroics - Missing Something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manf

The key to a successfull heroic instance is Crowd Control. You will have to face that a retri paladin is not capable of that. Therefore i would suggest that you replace the pala with a hunter or a rogue, that can trap or sap the mobs, and you will then have one less mob to worrey aobut. Also I have never played with a paladin that had awesome dps as retri. Therefore if i was you I'd suggest for your friend to start needing on some healing gear. But ofc this is just my opinion

. Hope you could use some of it

People speak a lot about pallys because they don't know it, i made a pally alt and is retribution, my DPS its very good i got the Thunder as well and to have a pally in the group its always a plus, use plate + the blessings and now we got boost in DPS as well so we dont give dps as a mage or a lock but that its normal but don't tell me that pally cant dps because they can, you just need to know it...

November 23, 2007, 11:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
gimmpy Character Info gimppy 70 Gnome Warlock Archimonde US PvP Guild: The Fremen Knights Talent Spec: aff/dest	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? I ran heroic ramparts in a pug without a single death! First heroic ever. I also had the chance to run mech the other day and had never done it before. The pug I ended up with all wanted to run it in heroic. Since they were all decently geared, I consented. For the most part, it was no problem. A few glitches, approx 3 wipes, and we downed the 3 'easy' bosses. You just have to be aware of what you can and can't do in that particular heroic. Some mobs that were banishable in regular were no longer in heroic. Also some weird aggro issues we weren't familiar with were present. For example, tank pulled one of those large robots(?) with a gun and I threw a CoW on it as it was coming and it bypassed the tank and 1 hit me for 10.5k! Aside the extra learning curve, I didn't feel undergeared for running heroics despite having barely run normal instances. I don't have any instance gear at all, but I'm sitting at over 900 shadow damage with demon armor. Sure, I do have the fsw set and almost got the full spellstrike set, but according to above comments, that pretty much makes me a noob. Are they hard? Yes, but if you have good tactics and push yourself just as hard you should in a raid, it shouldn't be a problem. Follow the seduce macro guide here and it will make your job alot easier as well.

November 23, 2007, 12:42 PM

#18 (permalink)

NewfieDave

Character Info
Conchrot
70 Undead Warlock
Anub'arak US PvP
Guild: Revolving Door
Profile: Blizzard Armory

Re: Heroics - Missing Something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooManChu55

NewfiDave great tip regarding CoR/CoS fear kiting, never thought of doing that

Looks like I have a bunch to learn regarding CC with my warlock.

Practice this on your own before trying it in an instance. Also avoid doing it in small areas with multiple groups of mobs. If fear is needed, ask your tank to pull the mobs back further than normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooManChu55

So is Kara similar to Heroics in difficulty? The other 5 we are running with are more experienced players, and a bit more geared then us, but just so have I some idea of what to expect come next Tuesday.

Kara is kind of like heroics, just... more heroic. Trash hits even harder, which makes it less forgiving if somebody messes up their CC or pulls aggro. Bosses are a bit more complicated than the average heroic boss, but most in Kara are pretty straightforward. You should have no problem downing the bosses up to Curator your first few times in Kara. Curator is the first gear check in there (although not much of one really). You'll have some trouble with him if your DPS is wearing a lot of greens and crappy blues, but with heroic, crafted, and early Kara gear he is a joke. Shade of Aran is the first good "idiot check" boss. If you can down him then at the very least you have 10 people who can listen and pay attention, which is a good sign for future raiding. Back when my guild was still working on Kara we used to place bets on which new recruits would move in flame wreath. Don't let it be you.

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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey

November 24, 2007, 10:28 AM

#19 (permalink)

chuin

Re: Heroics - Missing Something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arglebargle

Have the pally go prot and the warrior go dps..

That's the simplest answer and would work for all the heroics

Heroic Ramparts can be brutal for the first few times, but once you get more experience, it's not that hard. The following is what our group does, so adjust accordingly.

The first two mobs pull when the pat is away, fight the mobs close to the zone so you don't aggro pat when it comes back. I've been running with a pally tank so no CC at all, but I think a few patches back made it so you can seduce all/most of the mobs (think there's still one type you can't).

When possible, CC the casters/range(even ignore them if you're lacking CC). Kill the melee mobs first. CC generally breaks a bit earlier in heroics, so if you're CC'ing a melee and it breaks, that's usually a 1 or 2 shot death, whereas if a caster/archer breaks, it's more manageable. Curse of Shadow before or during the seduction helps a ton. If you're soullinked, make sure the healer watch the pet's health too (also Mana Feed talent in case dps is low and pet runs out of mana). Curse of Weakness on the melee mobs should help if the tank needs to handle multiple.

The dogs hit harder, have less hp, so kill those first.
The Destroyers will apply a mortal strike debuff, so more heals needed.
The Rippers hit hard, so more heals needed.
The caster types around the Ripper has a short range fear, but also short duration.
The Beastmaster will call adds(dogs), so keep the two Destroyers CC'd until after you handle the adds. Depending on where the pats are, they will aggro too from the called adds. If you can stun/kill him fast enuf, he won't have a chance to call adds.
The guys moving around to the anvils seem to have a larger aggro radius, so wait til they're REALLY solo or account for them in the pull.
The pack of four casters and 1 ripper up stairs you can seduce one, sheep one, mage tank/aggro one, dot tank/aggro one and focus kill the ripper. Pretty much any dps class can solo those casters.

Once you're through the tunnel up top, can ignore the mobs to the left. Pull the right group of 3(1 melee, 2 archers if i remember), then the group of 5(2 dogs, 2 caster, 1 melee).

1st boss - kill his two healers, then him.
2nd boss - multiple strats, but usually have non mana classes aggro the mana draining adds. I particularly have alot of fun range tanking this guy while the melee handle adds (although i think they will randomly mana drain anyways). Watch out for who has the treachery buff and have them get away from anyone near. Usually just try and burn him down fast before your healer is out of mana.
3rd boss - depending on your tank's aggro lead on the rider, you might want to split your dps between rider and dragon. Unless you get lucky, the dragon will land somewhere between 0-40% of the rider's health. Usually during this transition, the tank will lose aggro on the rider and he'll bounce around killing the dps so burst him down fast then switch dps to dragon.

November 24, 2007, 10:57 AM	#20 (permalink)
digimanbyte_ID Character Info Ceannon 80 Blood Elf Warlock Thaurissan Oceania PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/53/18	Re: Heroics - Missing Something? Heriocs are not as everest as some make it out to be, the first thing you need to learn is gear. Its damn important to have the best gear you can get at your disposal. Second thing, is learn what instances drop the loot for you guys, you could probably spend a few normal runs inorder to some good gear, then replace it with great gear in the heroics. As far as pugs are concerned its isn't really a problem with me I avoid the pugs I now want do much damage. And even though the reduced the requirement from revered to honor, which I applaud because it can be a bitch to level alts, I know when my alts are ready for heroics

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