How can I rectify my 25 man DPS?

Temp · June 07, 2008, 04:03 PM

I am really struggleing to find out where i am going wrong in 25 mans (Grull, Maggy, Ssc,Za), my dps is averageing about 500,700 mark, very similar to the affliction locks in same guild (they best gear fws)

BUT come 10 man 5 man heros etc i own with about 1000 average DPS and can put equaly geared rogues Dps to shame

My rotation never really changes Curse of Agony,(Cos if need) Spam SB in all events. (chuck in more dots if i got weak tank).

I know 25 mans need more moveing etc but i loosing so much DPS i beggining to wonder wtf and recount scares me in 25 man atm.

Any possible ideas where i may change my rotation (gear,gems) etc to rectify my 25 man DPS would be appriated please, being only destro lock in guild atm i kinnda need to show its worth it .

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...g&n=Temptation

levinho · June 07, 2008, 04:59 PM

Well, your gear and gemming is fine. I don't see anything wrong with it other than your damage and crit are a little low but not by much really for a sac destro spec. Your +4 stats enchant on bracers isn't better than the damage enchant. Timbal's crystal is less useful to a destro lock than say the Icon.

I wouldn't recommend spending time on Curse of Agony its a waste of a gcd every 18 secs or so. Your shadowbolts will get more benefit from CoS. Even still on trash you shouldn't be using a curse at all on the mobs that die quickly.

With your gear and spec you should be able to stand still and do twice the dps that you're saying you are doing in 25 mans. This probably means that you're doing something other than standing and nuking. It would help to have a WWS parse to see if there is anything that is obviously wrong.

The other thing is that you might not have a shaman or boomkin or sp in your group. I know i always get stuck with the hunters. Im still close to the top even though i give CoR to the rogues and get the crappy group. I would pay close attention to how well optimized the other groups are for melee and healers etc. Things like wrath of air and bloodlust would make a large difference for you.

Considering what you said about heroics and i guess Kara, you probably are positioning yourself better to stand and nuke in these instances. That's really all it takes to play this spec. Stand, nuke, don't die. Move when you have to but do it so that you minimalize your downtime. Also don't spend too much time casting dots other than immolate. They don't scale as well and don't have the threat reduction.

Valimir · June 09, 2008, 01:56 AM

I can see how you're overall damage would be lower on more mobile fights but your dps should be a lot higher than 700 given your gear. Without WWS it's hard to say. You should always use CoS over Curse of Agony unless some other lock is assigned to it. Generally I've only ever run with around 3 locks in a raid and we all used utility curses (CoS, CoE, CoR) rather than damage curses. In the long run it's better for the overall raid that way.

Jezz · June 09, 2008, 04:38 AM

I can't think why you are doing so little, as people have said if you don't need to curse CoS/CoE or CoR, then just put up doom when you are on the move, other wise just spam shadow bolt. Curse of Agony really isn't worth it.

Your armory at the moment shows a +30 healing enchant on bracers that can obviously be changed but apart from that I don't see anything majorly wrong with your gear/gemming.

What is your group setup out of interest?

oosel · June 09, 2008, 05:14 AM

do you have many mages in your group.......we always seem to run 2or 3 in ours with me being the only lock normally with most being fire frost i usually change tack entirely cast coe and then and use the usual fire rotation then instead im helping the mages and still rack up a good dps anyway....it might not be as high as cos and shadowbolt spam but overall it helps the raid more

vbg · June 09, 2008, 03:50 PM

Ya without more precise info its hard to pin down. But maybe it is the use of soulshatter. I am just starting to raid and these long fights are very different. heroics and even kara you can just give the tank some lead time and nuke away. In the higher end stuff you have to use a soulshatter or you are really gimping yourself. Thats what Im learning now.

Devicus · June 10, 2008, 11:18 AM

I'm gonna guess it's Curse of Agony. Basically on mobile fights, if you're running around your DPS time isn't increasing though neither is your DPS. However with a DoT ticking, during those periods, you're putting out about 150DPS from that DoT which will maul your aggro hard. Especially on mobile fights. When you throw shadowbolts you should do 1000DPS ish, depending on your raid, but all that Curse of Agony time at low DPS will pull it down.

If you're moving around the whole time you'll be keeping this instant up almost all the time. It'll be ticking with a low DPS. Now if the damage per cast time was good this wouldn't matter (it would be worthwhile), but as a destro lock, I doubt it.

Destro played, erm, traditionally has lower DPS time as you're only DPSing when you stand still, but high DPS. And at your gear level you'll only very marginally out damage (total) a simular geared afflock (assuming no ultra mobile fights)

Also, if CoS isn't up, use it. Doom is good but unless you're the only shadow or arcane user, shadows will be better. For raid bosses, it's always doom over agony, unless the boss is going to last 18-59 seconds anyway.

Finnally, remember, damage/fight time > DPS as measured by meters. As they only take damage during damage dealing time.

Temp · July 31, 2008, 06:49 AM

Been while since i posted this, reinstalled my whole PC from scratch, did cpl tweaks to my registarys to get higer FPS, and MS to try get better DPS, ofc learning the kills but here is are two WWS of latest kills i was involed in, to the people who asked to see them to try help me out i am still bit low as you can c by the WWS any idea still welcome , OFC patch since then has happened and my rotation is still a non DPS curse and SB spam with scyer gem to get 202 hit cap for bosses (dropping the darkmoon).

http://wowwebstats.com/yc5nqivftdahi?s=5-246

http://wowwebstats.com/yc5nqivftdahi?s=2324-2708

AS it says i am now into T6 aswell playing with lot people who are in 4/4 T6 sets but i still getting very low DPS comapred to them and some people who are same level as myself, which was pointed out to me only cpl days ago, being the guild i am running with they are one top guilds on my server for pve and atm i am getting very embarresed about my DPS problems (if i was a crap player i not even be allowed in the T6) But when top guild lets you go in there well i need try get some advice on this asp please.

Theleb · July 31, 2008, 07:26 AM

Nothing really to say - the top DPS Casters out-gear you by miles AND you're the one doing a support curse.....the only thing I could say is that your DPS time seems low. On BB you did 1/3 less Shadowbolts than Valis and he clearly throws up Immo/Shadowburn when he expects to move.

There's probably a couple of changes you could make to playstyle..but he's in a Buffgroup with SP and Shaman so really...what do they expect?

RiiZ · July 31, 2008, 07:55 AM

Maybe you should test out a cast bar add-on like quartz, which can help you chain the sb casts together with less downtime. Even on the gorefiend fight you cast less sb's and that fight (assumming you don't win the construct lottery) is zero mobility. But he does have a ton more haste than you, but his presence was also lower... looks like he got contructs, which would make his dps seem higher, and as Theleb says, group comp makes a huge difference.

June 07, 2008, 04:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Temp Registered Character Info Temptation 70 Undead Warlock Kilrogg Euro PvE Talent Spec: 0/21/40	How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? I am really struggleing to find out where i am going wrong in 25 mans (Grull, Maggy, Ssc,Za), my dps is averageing about 500,700 mark, very similar to the affliction locks in same guild (they best gear fws) BUT come 10 man 5 man heros etc i own with about 1000 average DPS and can put equaly geared rogues Dps to shame My rotation never really changes Curse of Agony,(Cos if need) Spam SB in all events. (chuck in more dots if i got weak tank). I know 25 mans need more moveing etc but i loosing so much DPS i beggining to wonder wtf and recount scares me in 25 man atm. Any possible ideas where i may change my rotation (gear,gems) etc to rectify my 25 man DPS would be appriated please, being only destro lock in guild atm i kinnda need to show its worth it . http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...g&n=Temptation

June 07, 2008, 04:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
levinho Member Character Info Ceausescu 70 Blood Elf Warlock mug'thol US PvP Guild: Defiant Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: whats going wrong? Well, your gear and gemming is fine. I don't see anything wrong with it other than your damage and crit are a little low but not by much really for a sac destro spec. Your +4 stats enchant on bracers isn't better than the damage enchant. Timbal's crystal is less useful to a destro lock than say the Icon. I wouldn't recommend spending time on Curse of Agony its a waste of a gcd every 18 secs or so. Your shadowbolts will get more benefit from CoS. Even still on trash you shouldn't be using a curse at all on the mobs that die quickly. With your gear and spec you should be able to stand still and do twice the dps that you're saying you are doing in 25 mans. This probably means that you're doing something other than standing and nuking. It would help to have a WWS parse to see if there is anything that is obviously wrong. The other thing is that you might not have a shaman or boomkin or sp in your group. I know i always get stuck with the hunters. Im still close to the top even though i give CoR to the rogues and get the crappy group. I would pay close attention to how well optimized the other groups are for melee and healers etc. Things like wrath of air and bloodlust would make a large difference for you. Considering what you said about heroics and i guess Kara, you probably are positioning yourself better to stand and nuke in these instances. That's really all it takes to play this spec. Stand, nuke, don't die. Move when you have to but do it so that you minimalize your downtime. Also don't spend too much time casting dots other than immolate. They don't scale as well and don't have the threat reduction.

June 09, 2008, 01:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
Valimir Member	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? I can see how you're overall damage would be lower on more mobile fights but your dps should be a lot higher than 700 given your gear. Without WWS it's hard to say. You should always use CoS over Curse of Agony unless some other lock is assigned to it. Generally I've only ever run with around 3 locks in a raid and we all used utility curses (CoS, CoE, CoR) rather than damage curses. In the long run it's better for the overall raid that way.

June 09, 2008, 04:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jezz Newly Registered User Character Info Endlessly 70 Blood Elf Warlock Boulderfist Euro PvP Guild: Over Exposure Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? I can't think why you are doing so little, as people have said if you don't need to curse CoS/CoE or CoR, then just put up doom when you are on the move, other wise just spam shadow bolt. Curse of Agony really isn't worth it. Your armory at the moment shows a +30 healing enchant on bracers that can obviously be changed but apart from that I don't see anything majorly wrong with your gear/gemming. What is your group setup out of interest?

June 09, 2008, 05:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
oosel Member Character Info oosel 70 Gnome Warlock darkspear Euro PvE Guild: carnagekings Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? do you have many mages in your group.......we always seem to run 2or 3 in ours with me being the only lock normally with most being fire frost i usually change tack entirely cast coe and then and use the usual fire rotation then instead im helping the mages and still rack up a good dps anyway....it might not be as high as cos and shadowbolt spam but overall it helps the raid more

June 09, 2008, 03:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
vbg Member Character Info vbg 70 Undead Warlock Perenold US PvE Guild: The Virtual Commune Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 41-0-20	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? Ya without more precise info its hard to pin down. But maybe it is the use of soulshatter. I am just starting to raid and these long fights are very different. heroics and even kara you can just give the tank some lead time and nuke away. In the higher end stuff you have to use a soulshatter or you are really gimping yourself. Thats what Im learning now.

June 10, 2008, 11:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
Devicus Member Character Info Devicus 70 Gnome Warlock thunderhorn Euro PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? I'm gonna guess it's Curse of Agony. Basically on mobile fights, if you're running around your DPS time isn't increasing though neither is your DPS. However with a DoT ticking, during those periods, you're putting out about 150DPS from that DoT which will maul your aggro hard. Especially on mobile fights. When you throw shadowbolts you should do 1000DPS ish, depending on your raid, but all that Curse of Agony time at low DPS will pull it down. If you're moving around the whole time you'll be keeping this instant up almost all the time. It'll be ticking with a low DPS. Now if the damage per cast time was good this wouldn't matter (it would be worthwhile), but as a destro lock, I doubt it. Destro played, erm, traditionally has lower DPS time as you're only DPSing when you stand still, but high DPS. And at your gear level you'll only very marginally out damage (total) a simular geared afflock (assuming no ultra mobile fights) Also, if CoS isn't up, use it. Doom is good but unless you're the only shadow or arcane user, shadows will be better. For raid bosses, it's always doom over agony, unless the boss is going to last 18-59 seconds anyway. Finnally, remember, damage/fight time > DPS as measured by meters. As they only take damage during damage dealing time.

July 31, 2008, 06:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
Temp Registered Character Info Temptation 70 Undead Warlock Kilrogg Euro PvE Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? Been while since i posted this, reinstalled my whole PC from scratch, did cpl tweaks to my registarys to get higer FPS, and MS to try get better DPS, ofc learning the kills but here is are two WWS of latest kills i was involed in, to the people who asked to see them to try help me out i am still bit low as you can c by the WWS any idea still welcome , OFC patch since then has happened and my rotation is still a non DPS curse and SB spam with scyer gem to get 202 hit cap for bosses (dropping the darkmoon). http://wowwebstats.com/yc5nqivftdahi?s=5-246 http://wowwebstats.com/yc5nqivftdahi?s=2324-2708 AS it says i am now into T6 aswell playing with lot people who are in 4/4 T6 sets but i still getting very low DPS comapred to them and some people who are same level as myself, which was pointed out to me only cpl days ago, being the guild i am running with they are one top guilds on my server for pve and atm i am getting very embarresed about my DPS problems (if i was a crap player i not even be allowed in the T6) But when top guild lets you go in there well i need try get some advice on this asp please. Last edited by Temp; July 31, 2008 at 07:07 AM.

July 31, 2008, 07:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? Nothing really to say - the top DPS Casters out-gear you by miles AND you're the one doing a support curse.....the only thing I could say is that your DPS time seems low. On BB you did 1/3 less Shadowbolts than Valis and he clearly throws up Immo/Shadowburn when he expects to move. There's probably a couple of changes you could make to playstyle..but he's in a Buffgroup with SP and Shaman so really...what do they expect?

July 31, 2008, 07:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
RiiZ Lurker Character Info Leogere 70 Orc Warlock Mok'Nathal US PvE Guild: Clarity Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: How can I rectify my 25 man DPS? Maybe you should test out a cast bar add-on like quartz, which can help you chain the sb casts together with less downtime. Even on the gorefiend fight you cast less sb's and that fight (assumming you don't win the construct lottery) is zero mobility. But he does have a ton more haste than you, but his presence was also lower... looks like he got contructs, which would make his dps seem higher, and as Theleb says, group comp makes a huge difference.