doting trash?

[breena]

so i was in a heoric UB yesterday....about 2mins into it the healer goes 'why dont i see any dots, i want to see dots from now on', there was another lock there and he said 'ok i'll try' :S and my reply was 'no way not on trash, boss fights yeah of course but otherwise its so much more effective to just Curse of Agony and SB'

His reply was 'just because you are destro spec'd doesnt mean that you dont dot, i have a lock and i always dot' and then the rogue agreed with him.

my DPS isnt bad and i have never had a problem with Curse of Agony and SB on trash. infact since i re-specd from affliction to Destro and started playing this way my DPS has REALLY improved.

So firstly, am i wrong?

secondly, since this was a guild group if i was right...i want to know how i can get this through their stubborn little heads (because you know, how could they ever listen to a female player... they dont know anything)

So...this is my argument pls correct me if i'm wrong...corruption deals 900 shadow damge over 18sec, immolate causes 615 fire damage over 15secs. In most cases(pls note, talking about trash fights only) the target would be dead before these DOTs would have ticked so with taking into consideration the casting time, isnt it way more effective to Curse of Agony and throw multiple shadow bolts which hit for 2000+ shadow damage.

Heh i just want to know if i am missing something because nobody in the group seemed to agree with me... so confused...

[Aerandirus]

One of you 2 locks should have been using CoS then the other using Curse of Agony/CotE depending on mages.

Destro spec'd will do more damage on trash without DoT's.

[SavageBT]

Yeah as Destro (if not on another curse duty) Curse of Agony can be good to throw out while initial agro is being established. On subsequent mobs if agro is already established it will likely drop before Curse of Agony ticks and I would just go with straight bolts. If it is going to live for over 15 sec throw Immo in too, even as shadow destro its worth it until T6. If threat was a problem you could even swap it for CoR for the tank/rogue.
You are correct though - if a DoT doesn't fully tick out you are better off bolting, this is true even for full affliction builds.

Point them at this site :P

*** Information added 7 Minutes and 51 Seconds later... ***

Sorry just re-read your post. If they don't value your opinion hit them with logic and some solid maths: tell them to tell you how exactly your statements are wrong without repeating some rote-learned mantra that probably dates back to pre-BC SM-Ruin raiding. Ask them to tell you how, if a mob lasts 10 seconds, 3 ticks of corruption is more valuable than a shadowbolt. Work out the damage per cast time on your corruption, immolate (including initial damage) and shadow bolt (including crits) and go from there. Remember DoTs do not proc ISB...

[Rekarra]

Tell them to "shove it" imho :D The only "DoT" I throw is Immolate and then spam Incinerate. Run a Damage meter if you need to show them proof that even without a Corruption and Curse of Agony (which I haven't cast since I went Destro) your still rocking the damage. In fact my rotation on trash is CoE, Immolate, 4-5 Incinerates and pop conflagrate as soon as the last Incinerate hits and Drain soul if I'm low on shards. However, if your built for shadow damage, I really can't say much haven't played around with a shadow destro build.

[dogwatch]

I often don't dot, I agree its not always the best thing to be casting.

I would highly recommend some kind of Curse though. Usually for me it's curse of shadows. But it also depends on your target. If I can take down trash in 3-4 SBolts i usally don't bother. I typically save those for monsters with 20K health and higher.

[Rubella]

From a strict damage perspective, Curse of Agony is probably the worst DoT for a trash mob unless the DoT will run for its full course since most of Curse of Agony's damage comes at the end.

With multiple mobs that are being tanked, I go around and do my curses (CoT for casters, CoR for tanked mob to help aggro generation and maybe a Curse of Agony on any off-tanked mobs that won't receive cc), then sb spam. The time it takes to lay out the curses usually gives the tank sufficient time to build a good aggro ceiling.

Numbers don't lie. If your guild won't be swayed by data, it might be time to find a new guild.

[MrUnderpants]

Originally Posted by Rubella

From a strict damage perspective, Curse of Agony is probably the worst DoT for a trash mob unless the DoT will run for its full course since most of Curse of Agony's damage comes at the end.

With multiple mobs that are being tanked, I go around and do my curses (CoT for casters, CoR for tanked mob to help aggro generation and maybe a Curse of Agony on any off-tanked mobs that won't receive cc), then sb spam. The time it takes to lay out the curses usually gives the tank sufficient time to build a good aggro ceiling.

Numbers don't lie. If your guild won't be swayed by data, it might be time to find a new guild.

Totally agree with this post...tell your healer friend to stick with healing and come visit this site to learn how to properly play his lock cause obviously he has no clue.

[Thralock]

Its all to do with mob time to die. Say Td.

From FG Raid spec perspective:
If Td is =< 5 seconds: best sequence SB, Shadowburn
If Td is =< 10 seconds: SB, SB, burn
If Td is =< 12 seconds: Imm, SB, SB, burn
If Td is =< 15 seconds: Corr, SB, SB, SB, burn - surprisingly
If Td is =< 17 secs: Immolate, SB, SB, SB, burn
If Td is =< 18 secs: Corr, Imm, SB, SB, SB, burn
If Td is => 20 secs: Curse of Agony, Corr, Imm, SB, SB, SB, burn

[breena]

thankyou very much for advise on curses and confirming that i'm not doing anything wrong by not putting evry dot on each mob.

I tryed to politely convince him to visit this site and for that i got my head bitten off sayiing that he cant believe i would listen to some people on forums followed by a whole lot of random insults...i later found out that it is likely his lock is still in all blues :/ just from looking up a couple of your amory profiles i think any sane person would value your opinion over a player who thinks he is pro because he has leveled a handful of 70 all of which are in rags....so i have a new addition to my ignore list :D

[mcgee84]

To be fair, perhaps he didn't realize the difference between the Den and the Official Class.