Curse Coordination

Scarletsnow · June 16, 2008, 10:59 AM

My guild has three locks that raid regularly. Two are destruction (including myself) and one is affliction.

The affliction warlock keeps up CoS since our mages are all arc/frost spec (heavy on the arc) and us destro locks use either CoD or Curse of Agony depending.

One of our hunters got an owl so now one of us has to keep up CoR, for the time myself. The night I used it (first three bosses in BT) I noticed a large drop in my overall damage from having to run in to use it every two minutes, especially on Naj'entus and Supremas. While the other destro lock (our aff. only raids maybe one night a week) used CoD on every boss and was far head of me in overall damage. Our gear is about equal and we're the same spec.

What is the best way to approach curse coordiantion between three warlocks in a guild without being bossy about it and helping the raid overall the best?

Roast · June 16, 2008, 11:12 AM

it all depends on your raid setup. usually with two locks and the average setup you should be using CoS and CoE...

... i cant see how CoR just for one pet is usefull, seems a bit weird to me. try CoS and CoE. if you need CoR let the third lock use it; but when we raid (with an average group, mixed players) then we go with CoS CoE and a damage curse (usually CoD on bosses)

Scarletsnow · June 16, 2008, 11:18 AM

We have alot of hunters, rogues, and an arms warrior that raid...

We have about two mages and two warlocks in raids.

Is CoR still unjustified for overall raid dps compared to the other curses?

Lylie · June 16, 2008, 11:20 AM

Our guild has the same set up 2 destro - 1 affliction

We use all 3 curses because the overall raid DPS increase from all 3 curses far out weighs that of 1 individual's DPS

CoR is up on EVERYTHING with the exception of Archi/Illidan
CoS is ALWAYS up or Malediction lock does that
CoE is almost always up as well because it's 10% DPS increase to mages who are frost/fire as well as if there is a lock using immolate.

The exceptions are fights or nights where mages are not in the raid or otherwise occupied with other tasks.

We actually just had a HUGE CoE discussion on what would value the guild the most, and basically what was come up with is that if there are 2 mages in the raid that are frost/fire then keeping it up is to a greater benefit to the WHOLE raid dps which is ultimately what it's about.

Increasing 1 individual's DPS is nice and all but when you can increase the overall DPS of the raid then it's greater to use it.

There is a huge contention of CoR and not using it. Basically if you have 1 hunter and 1 rogue it needs to be up. The benefits of CoR are all around.

A lot of people worry about the additional damage that is being done but in reality this is completely negated if you have a DPS warrior with imp demo shout alone not counting other abilities that lessen the amount of damage that a boss hits for. There are only 2 bosses we currently do not use it on and like I said those are Archi and Illidan, mainly because they hit like trucks and the full effectiveness of imp. demo shout is needed versus 1/3 of it.

In addition to increasing every melee's DPS (hunters, rogues, warriors, druids, pets) by ~10% it increases threat generation by a tank which we know as warlocks in completely necessary.

So if you aren't using all curses really you're gimping the raid.

Rubella · June 16, 2008, 11:45 AM

Lylie's got it on this one. Group > individual.

@ Roast CoR is not FOR the pet, rather the pet's debuff mitigates the AP increase from CoR. CoR is absolutely fantastic to use, so long as a warrior has demo shout (improved or otherwise) up AND an owl's screech debuff active. The owl's screech is the only AP reduction that stacks with the other available debuffs (faerie fire, CoW or demo shout).

@scarletsnow: in the example you describe, it seems like you only had 2 warlocks that night. If so, the other destro 'lock should have had CoS up. No excuses.

Theleb · June 16, 2008, 01:07 PM

What Lylie said tbh - its that easy. There's also quite a lengthy thread here, if you want to do some further reading (without checking I think it quotes of lot of maths to support the simple CoS/CoE/CoR basis of three locks).

Which Warlock Should Be On What Curse? - The Warlocks Den Forums

June 16, 2008, 10:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Scarletsnow Lurker Character Info ScarletSnow 70 Human Warlock Steamwheedle Cartel US PvE Guild: Ethos Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Curse Coordination My guild has three locks that raid regularly. Two are destruction (including myself) and one is affliction. The affliction warlock keeps up CoS since our mages are all arc/frost spec (heavy on the arc) and us destro locks use either CoD or Curse of Agony depending. One of our hunters got an owl so now one of us has to keep up CoR, for the time myself. The night I used it (first three bosses in BT) I noticed a large drop in my overall damage from having to run in to use it every two minutes, especially on Naj'entus and Supremas. While the other destro lock (our aff. only raids maybe one night a week) used CoD on every boss and was far head of me in overall damage. Our gear is about equal and we're the same spec. What is the best way to approach curse coordiantion between three warlocks in a guild without being bossy about it and helping the raid overall the best?

June 16, 2008, 11:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Roast Member Character Info Unomas 70 Human Warlock Kilrogg Euro PvE Guild: Tre Kronor Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 44/3/14	Re: Curse Coordination it all depends on your raid setup. usually with two locks and the average setup you should be using CoS and CoE... ... i cant see how CoR just for one pet is usefull, seems a bit weird to me. try CoS and CoE. if you need CoR let the third lock use it; but when we raid (with an average group, mixed players) then we go with CoS CoE and a damage curse (usually CoD on bosses)

June 16, 2008, 11:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
Scarletsnow Lurker Character Info ScarletSnow 70 Human Warlock Steamwheedle Cartel US PvE Guild: Ethos Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Curse Coordination We have alot of hunters, rogues, and an arms warrior that raid... We have about two mages and two warlocks in raids. Is CoR still unjustified for overall raid dps compared to the other curses?

June 16, 2008, 11:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lylie Member Character Info Lylie 70 Human Warlock Demon Soul US PvP Guild: Paradigm Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Curse Coordination Our guild has the same set up 2 destro - 1 affliction We use all 3 curses because the overall raid DPS increase from all 3 curses far out weighs that of 1 individual's DPS CoR is up on EVERYTHING with the exception of Archi/Illidan CoS is ALWAYS up or Malediction lock does that CoE is almost always up as well because it's 10% DPS increase to mages who are frost/fire as well as if there is a lock using immolate. The exceptions are fights or nights where mages are not in the raid or otherwise occupied with other tasks. We actually just had a HUGE CoE discussion on what would value the guild the most, and basically what was come up with is that if there are 2 mages in the raid that are frost/fire then keeping it up is to a greater benefit to the WHOLE raid dps which is ultimately what it's about. Increasing 1 individual's DPS is nice and all but when you can increase the overall DPS of the raid then it's greater to use it. There is a huge contention of CoR and not using it. Basically if you have 1 hunter and 1 rogue it needs to be up. The benefits of CoR are all around. A lot of people worry about the additional damage that is being done but in reality this is completely negated if you have a DPS warrior with imp demo shout alone not counting other abilities that lessen the amount of damage that a boss hits for. There are only 2 bosses we currently do not use it on and like I said those are Archi and Illidan, mainly because they hit like trucks and the full effectiveness of imp. demo shout is needed versus 1/3 of it. In addition to increasing every melee's DPS (hunters, rogues, warriors, druids, pets) by ~10% it increases threat generation by a tank which we know as warlocks in completely necessary. So if you aren't using all curses really you're gimping the raid.

June 16, 2008, 11:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rubella Member Character Info Rubella 70 Undead Warlock Chromaggus US PvP Guild: Grand Theft Kodo Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Curse Coordination Lylie's got it on this one. Group > individual. @ Roast CoR is not FOR the pet, rather the pet's debuff mitigates the AP increase from CoR. CoR is absolutely fantastic to use, so long as a warrior has demo shout (improved or otherwise) up AND an owl's screech debuff active. The owl's screech is the only AP reduction that stacks with the other available debuffs (faerie fire, CoW or demo shout). @scarletsnow: in the example you describe, it seems like you only had 2 warlocks that night. If so, the other destro 'lock should have had CoS up. No excuses.

June 16, 2008, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: Curse Coordination What Lylie said tbh - its that easy. There's also quite a lengthy thread here, if you want to do some further reading (without checking I think it quotes of lot of maths to support the simple CoS/CoE/CoR basis of three locks). Which Warlock Should Be On What Curse? - The Warlocks Den Forums