Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH?

Mocnor · June 16, 2008, 06:54 PM

I have a question which will probably boil down to basic math and since my math skills isn't that well ill ask anyhow. I am the class leader of warlocks in my BT/MH raiding guild. I know that destro is the way to go for raiding, I normally have 3 warlocks in the raid. Right now i have two of them destro 0/21/40, and one of them afflic for the 3/3 malediction. Should I always keep this locks dps gimped by keeping him afflic and buffing the raid or let him go destro with the rest of us? I also normally have 2-3 arcane mages, 2 shadow priest in the raid as well. So is it more benefitial for the raid to have his dps gimped for the 3 percent buff or have him go destro and top the damage meters with the mages/locks?

Lylie · June 16, 2008, 07:18 PM

Short answer yes.

Basically it depends on your raid composition. If you have at least 3 raiding locks then definitely cause that's 3 people that are getting an addition 13% dps. That does not include the benefit that hunters get for arcane shot as well as arcane mages you may have in your raid.

Most support affliction locks will have 5/5 Shadow embraces which is godly against t6 level bosses.

mcgee84 · June 16, 2008, 08:10 PM

If you have those kinds of numbers between arcane and shadow casters, I can't imagine how there's anyway you'd get better raidwide dps moving him to 21/40. In fact, I'd be very surprised if those mages and the other locks and the priest didn't notice something was off right away, should you ever switch him out of malediction. If you're worried about how -he- feels about being low man on the lockpole, have him experimenting with not using CoS on farm content, and show him the differences in the numbers. I'd bet more than even money you'll both end up satisfied with one lock on aff utility.

Lylie · June 16, 2008, 08:20 PM

If he does have an issue with the lower DPS, with the right gear and stats he can successfully go Mal/Ruin and see a significant DPS increase.

mcgee84 · June 16, 2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lylie

If he does have an issue with the lower DPS, with the right gear and stats he can successfully go Mal/Ruin and see a significant DPS increase.

And still have a few points left over to play around with Shadow Embrace or either of the Imp HS levels, since full Contagion isn't needed.

Kordansk · June 18, 2008, 05:29 AM

As soon as your locks all get 4pc, the DPS benefit outweighs the affliction spec and they should all be destro at that point.

Necronomis · June 18, 2008, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kordansk

As soon as your locks all get 4pc, the DPS benefit outweighs the affliction spec and they should all be destro at that point.

^^

Amiro · June 18, 2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lylie

Basically it depends on your raid composition. If you have at least 3 raiding locks then definitely cause that's 3 people that are getting an addition 13% dps. That does not include the benefit that hunters get for arcane shot as well as arcane mages you may have in your raid.

I'm not quite sure where the 13% comes from, because as destro he can cast CoS as well. So then it will be 3% more, not 13%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lylie

Most support affliction locks will have 5/5 Shadow embraces which is godly against t6 level bosses.

Here I see the major gain from affli support. Beside of 5% lower boss damage, you should also calculate if 3% of all other locks, arcane mages and spriests is more damage then the difference between him and destro locks.

Chinkmachine · June 18, 2008, 08:19 AM

Lets do some basic math to justify this.

Assume all your destro warlocks do 1500 dps, shadow priests do 1000 dps, arcane mages do 1500 dps, and the affliction warlock doing 1000 dps.

So with 3 arcane mages, your total raid dps from these contributors is: 1500 + 1500 + 1000 + 1000 + 1500 + 1500 + 1500 + 1000 = 10500 dps.

0.03 x 10500 = 315.

So the increase in dps from the entire raid with the malediction is a total of 315, whereas if the said affliction warlock were to respec to destruction, the overall raid dps would be a 500 dps increase (assuming the afflic warlock does 1000 dps and destro warlocks doing 1500 dps). This means with a malediction warlock, your raid loses 185 dps total than if he were destruction.

Of course these numbers are based upon assumptions on your dpser's average dps. The less dps they do than these averages, the less the malediction warlock helps, and the more dps they do than these averages, the more the malediction warlock helps.

Overall most guilds that raid end game instances don't bring an affliction warlock because it becomes less overall raid dps than if they were destruction. However keep in mind if the said affliction warlock does not have the gear for effective destruction spec, then feel free to let him stay affliction.

Ladhy · June 18, 2008, 09:15 AM

Affliction warlocks are there to support the raid, it will depend on your raid, I personally don't think that malediction is worth the dps lack as being affliction on T6 content. If your MT and OTs feel good without the imp buff, if you always have a priest to fort the raid (sounds crazy but sometimes there are no priests) there is not reason to keep an affliction warlock in.

But also keep in mind that it will depend on his playstile, it's totally different to be affliction and destruction, if he can peform well as destro his dps you still be down the others and no support for the raid will be available, so I suggest to have a conversation with the tanks and raid leader to see how they feel without the buffs and then talk to the guy and see how he feels as destro.

June 16, 2008, 06:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mocnor Lurker Character Info Mocnor 70 Human Warlock shu halo US PvP Guild: Exterminatus	Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? I have a question which will probably boil down to basic math and since my math skills isn't that well ill ask anyhow. I am the class leader of warlocks in my BT/MH raiding guild. I know that destro is the way to go for raiding, I normally have 3 warlocks in the raid. Right now i have two of them destro 0/21/40, and one of them afflic for the 3/3 malediction. Should I always keep this locks dps gimped by keeping him afflic and buffing the raid or let him go destro with the rest of us? I also normally have 2-3 arcane mages, 2 shadow priest in the raid as well. So is it more benefitial for the raid to have his dps gimped for the 3 percent buff or have him go destro and top the damage meters with the mages/locks?

June 16, 2008, 07:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lylie Member Character Info Lylie 70 Human Warlock Demon Soul US PvP Guild: Paradigm Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? Short answer yes. Basically it depends on your raid composition. If you have at least 3 raiding locks then definitely cause that's 3 people that are getting an addition 13% dps. That does not include the benefit that hunters get for arcane shot as well as arcane mages you may have in your raid. Most support affliction locks will have 5/5 Shadow embraces which is godly against t6 level bosses.

June 16, 2008, 08:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
mcgee84 Member Character Info Seton Human Warlock Arygos US PvE Guild: Supplemental Wrath Talent Spec: 41/3/17	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? If you have those kinds of numbers between arcane and shadow casters, I can't imagine how there's anyway you'd get better raidwide dps moving him to 21/40. In fact, I'd be very surprised if those mages and the other locks and the priest didn't notice something was off right away, should you ever switch him out of malediction. If you're worried about how -he- feels about being low man on the lockpole, have him experimenting with not using CoS on farm content, and show him the differences in the numbers. I'd bet more than even money you'll both end up satisfied with one lock on aff utility.

June 16, 2008, 08:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lylie Member Character Info Lylie 70 Human Warlock Demon Soul US PvP Guild: Paradigm Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? If he does have an issue with the lower DPS, with the right gear and stats he can successfully go Mal/Ruin and see a significant DPS increase.

June 18, 2008, 05:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kordansk Member Character Info Kordansk 70 Orc Warlock Skullcrusher US PvP Guild: Beatdown Brigade Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? As soon as your locks all get 4pc, the DPS benefit outweighs the affliction spec and they should all be destro at that point.

June 18, 2008, 08:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
Chinkmachine Member Character Info Bozoisundead 70 Undead Warlock Lightnings Blade US PvP Guild: Aftermath Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? Lets do some basic math to justify this. Assume all your destro warlocks do 1500 dps, shadow priests do 1000 dps, arcane mages do 1500 dps, and the affliction warlock doing 1000 dps. So with 3 arcane mages, your total raid dps from these contributors is: 1500 + 1500 + 1000 + 1000 + 1500 + 1500 + 1500 + 1000 = 10500 dps. 0.03 x 10500 = 315. So the increase in dps from the entire raid with the malediction is a total of 315, whereas if the said affliction warlock were to respec to destruction, the overall raid dps would be a 500 dps increase (assuming the afflic warlock does 1000 dps and destro warlocks doing 1500 dps). This means with a malediction warlock, your raid loses 185 dps total than if he were destruction. Of course these numbers are based upon assumptions on your dpser's average dps. The less dps they do than these averages, the less the malediction warlock helps, and the more dps they do than these averages, the more the malediction warlock helps. Overall most guilds that raid end game instances don't bring an affliction warlock because it becomes less overall raid dps than if they were destruction. However keep in mind if the said affliction warlock does not have the gear for effective destruction spec, then feel free to let him stay affliction.

June 18, 2008, 09:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ladhy Registered Character Info Ladhy 70 Human Warlock Eathern Ring US RP PvE Guild: Pirates Never Die Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Should I keep an affliction lock in BT/MH? Affliction warlocks are there to support the raid, it will depend on your raid, I personally don't think that malediction is worth the dps lack as being affliction on T6 content. If your MT and OTs feel good without the imp buff, if you always have a priest to fort the raid (sounds crazy but sometimes there are no priests) there is not reason to keep an affliction warlock in. But also keep in mind that it will depend on his playstile, it's totally different to be affliction and destruction, if he can peform well as destro his dps you still be down the others and no support for the raid will be available, so I suggest to have a conversation with the tanks and raid leader to see how they feel without the buffs and then talk to the guy and see how he feels as destro.