Destruction Warlocks Being Forced into using Imps!

[Bodhisage]

All warlocks that are 0/21/40 cringe at this idea. To us its illogical and counter productive. But as my guild progresses further into The Burning Crusade I'm begining to realize not everyone sees it this way, or even understands how destruction warlocks operate. This has been a cause of some internal conflict as of late.

Obviously this only comes up when our raid is without an Affliction lock. We are generally never short on locks, but only one of them is specced affliction. When he's not online all the locks that raid are destro. So the dilemma occurs when our raid leader (the main tank) calls for an imp in his group.

How should us locks approach this situation? Lately we have been going along with his requests (very reluctantly), but letting the raid know that we are nerfing ourselves by 15% damage and that the imp does nothing to help us. On top of that we lose our spot w/ a shaman and caster groups.

I've read on some fights it may be necessary for the tank to have all the hp's he can get. Tidewalker and the shaman in Fathom Lord come to mind. But as we move to Black Temple I'm worried that this will continue, thus defeating the purpose of our best DPS spec.

Honestly with raid buffs as long as u are full epics with a good amount being ssc tk equiv we should be fine cause its the blues here and there that break ya. With all the locks we got it shouldnt be hard to spread the imps out as needed also.

-Raid Leader regarding everyone having 10k health in Black Temple Fights.

This is now moving away from one imp being out w/ the tank. Should destro locks be required to nerf ourselves because the healers can't reach this magic number of 10k health? I've obviously never done the BT fights, so I don't know how much damage the raid takes, but is an Imp going to make a difference? Of the 4 regular destro locks that raid, all 4 of us always are in the top 5-7 in dps and damage done, but still imps are called for, and if it comes to the point where we are all getting asked to use imps they why the hell should we be destro specced anyway? How can we make our raid and leader see the light?

Sorry this kind of turned into a rant, but I'm wondering if anyone else ran into similar problems and how to best address them. The counter argument that always gets shot back in our face goes along the lines of "you guys just care about the DPS meters and your e-peen." I'm just not sure how to respond to that and what to say to my fellow locks regarding this matter.

[DrkSnpr14]

When people think warlocks in a group situation, they instantly think imp, and even though they are uneducated on the situation, I don't blame them. We don't have any other demon that gets used in PVE situation. (And if your using succy to CC, that's just a problem)

You'd think though that by black temple, players would have a certain grasp of the classes they are playing besides, and listen when we try and explain WHY raiding destro locks are built this way, and require demonic sacrifice, and are topping your damage charts, and summoning an imp ruins that. It's not about personal dps, it's about a significant drop in raid DPS all together.

[mcgee84]

Hrm. I'm trying to figure where your RL is coming from.

Could you give us an example of just how many locks you guys typically roll with?

[Sarix]

It's also about teamwork and surviving the encounter. Being #1 on the damage chart means nothing if you fail the attempt. Sounds like you all are just starting out and if the imp pushes raid members over the gear check then go for it. I'd expect that the imp calls would drop off once the healers get geared. TBH I don't think the destro locks would be that far off from affliction specs if the guild is just starting BT.

Work out a rotation with the other locks if it's that distressing, or get a volunteer to respec affliction. Then no one looks gimped.

P.S. I think you're losing a lot more than 15% damage if no one is specced malediction (or the lock who is isn't around). Especially with the upcoming patch.

[Pernicious]

Perhaps it would help if you break it down for him

The imp provides what, 66 stam (non-improved)? and at 10 points of health per, thats 660 health, a fair amount, but not earth shattering. The imps range is only 20 yards, so odds are, only the tank will really even benefit from this.

However 15% of your total dps adds up to a lot of missed damage. I cannot produce exact figures, not knowing your dps potential or the fight your on. But being pulled out of a Strong DPS group into a tank group hinders you beyond the 15%, now you may be looking at a 20-30% dps loss as the party your in wont include a shadow priest, lock, shaman, or what not. In a raid, DPS is very important and just because there are a few others of your class in the raid doesn't make up for a loss of that scale.

Ultimately, its your Raid Leaders responsibility, but you should be sure and educate him to make sure he understands the full impact of what that imp means in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps its worth trying without it and seeing if the healers can keep up with 660 less health on the tank?

[Raelindrin1]

Honestly I think that on the rare occasion where your Aff lock is not on then one of the Dest locks should spec to Aff for the night. As mentioned above its all about working together and getting the job done, Aff brings so much utility to a raid group. So your dps may be a little lower for a night, so what, it isnt always about how much you crit for, sometimes adding HP and reducing damage helps more than topping the damage charts.

[Valimir]

I agree with Raelindrin1, if the raid really needs those 700HP from the imp then can't the guild bank just pay for a destro lock to spec aff for the night then pay for his spec back to destro? You might even see an all round benefit from the Malediction and Shadow Embrace utility.

[levinho]

@Darksnpr14: I don't understand why you say using the succubus is a problem. It is about the only way I survive bad pugs with a fel dom and seduce. People underate the use of seduction for cc. It can be as effective as a mage if used right and much more effective than a hunter's traps for instance.

@OP: Afflicition is nice for utility, but at a point the warlocks personal DPS is going to be greater than the 3% bonus to DPS for the raid. I believe that is around when they start getting into t6 gear. Also it depends on who is in the raid. If half the raid is a mage, a shadow priest, or warlock then yeah no question, but my raid group usually is pretty balanced with enh shamans and rogues and hunters (even a ret pally occasionally) out weighing the casters by a slight margin. For that matter, utility for an aff lock is really only malediction at T5/6 because if your healers can't deal without the 660 health for a tank thats sad. Shadow embrace is hardly worth mentioning because it only affects physical damage and again a tank getting spam healed by a pally shouldn't have a problem without it.

[mcgee84]

Originally Posted by levinho

@Darksnpr14: I don't understand why you say using the succubus is a problem. It is about the only way I survive bad pugs with a fel dom and seduce. People underate the use of seduction for cc. It can be as effective as a mage if used right and much more effective than a hunter's traps for instance.

Write that guide.

[Mazmorgul]

Originally Posted by Bodhisage

The counter argument that always gets shot back in our face goes along the lines of "you guys just care about the DPS meters and your e-peen."

TBH, that's how you're coming across.