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January 20, 2009, 06:23 PM
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#31 (permalink) | ||
Status: I am Death
Character Info
Darksumoner 80 Human Warlock Tanaris US PvE Guild: Samsara Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Threat issues
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I think that you shall Die NOW!!! Haatoom Attack!!!! |
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February 02, 2009, 12:52 PM
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#32 (permalink) |
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Re: Threat issues
**Just thought I'd chip in here with a post I've made elsewhere. Please note this is a repost from my thread on the EU suggestion forums, want to see what you think.** I was reading the various posts I had seen, mostly on the US forum, about warlock aggro issues and I came across an idea that I'd like to share. I've included some extra info to help explain the situation but if you don't want to read that or already know, skip to the section labelled [Idea]. [Background] It's well known that currently warlocks have to spec into both threat reduction talents in order to get reduced threat on all the damage we deal (as apposed to say a Fire Mage having reduction for fire and not frost) and that even with these talents (see affliction locks) threat is still a very prominent issue. In addition to this, full demonology warlocks are unable to get threat reduction for more than one tree (usually resulting in us forgoing it at all) which you'd think would be ok given pets make up a significant portion of our DPS. I from experience can say that this is not necessarily true, on short and very bursty fights I also have aggro issues. Currently the levels of threat reduction is wildly varied for classes. Some such as shadowpriests enjoy 30% from shadow form and can gain an additional 25% from Shadow Affinity, however it seems that the base reduction on shadowform more than negates the need for Shadow affinity. Warriors on the other hand are only able to gain 10% form a talent in deep Fury, and also have no aggro dump! Speaking of aggro dumps, Soulshatter is somewhat inadequate. I say somewhat because depending on the situation it can be better or worse. For example if you're late into a fight, say 50%, and you run high on aggro it is likely that you can use SS and drop a lot of aggro, allowing you to be safe for the remainder of the fight. However if you have to use it early it drops very little threat and leaves you worrying for the remainder of the fight. The 5 min CD on this ability only continues to hamper warlock threat in short term fights. Lastly I wish to speak of leveling up, whilst it may not seem relevant it leads to my idea. It appears that during leveling we're expected ot have our Voidwalker tank, whilst we deal damage from afar. Unfortunately as most 'locks will find, the VW is terrible at holding threat from the warlock unless he deals the minimum amount of damage. This of course leads the warlock to be beat upon, severely reducing his ability to deal damage. Wouldn't it be nice if the tanking pet could.... well, if it could tank? [Idea] My idea is as follows: On the talent [Demonic Brutality] add the following: "In addition, redirects 10%/20%/30% of the warlocks threat to his summoned demon" EDIT: Changed 'Voidwalker and Felguard' to 'summoned demon', to clarify this change is meant to be beneficial to any spec of Warlock. Benefits: This kills 2 birds with one stone, it allows the Voidwalker and Felguard to better perform their role and at the same time reduces the amount of threat generated by the warlock! It also fits nicely onto an existing talent designed to improve the Voidwalker and the Felguard. Brings warlocks threat reduction into line with other classes. Drawbacks Warlock trees even currently are bloated, with the talent in Demonology tier 2 it may prevent builds picking it up. 30% could possibly trivialise threat issues for warlocks too much. Resolutions Move the talent into tier 1, replacing improved imp. This would make the talent more widely available, and easily accessible for leveling. Could be worked into the Demonology tree tweaking? Reduce the 3/3 30% down to a lower number, this was just a ballpark guideline number and is likely too much. My intent was to enable the warlock pets be able to hold aggro, which this number would enable... but probably by too much. The existing threat talents would likely need to be reworked or removed, though I'd imagine this might be done again if these talents come under review (which they need). [Closing Remarks] I really like the idea of the warlock pet being able to tank properly, I also like the idea of reducing warlock aggro issues. This aside, soulshatter still needs to be looked at, it either needs to do more on the long CD it has, or it needs it's CD drastically lowered. That however is a discussion for another day. TL;DR My idea is to permenantly redirect 30% of warlock threat onto their demons, tacked onto the Demonic Brutality talent. Any ideas/comments? I'd love to hear them! |
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February 02, 2009, 03:24 PM
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#33 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Lephlock 80 Blood Elf Warlock Earthen Ring US RP Guild: Team Awesome Talent Spec: 0/55/16 |
Re: Threat issues
Just that the base VW threat needs to be buffed IMO. I was demonology (meta) specced as of 3.0 dropping, and when we had the DE threat bug, the VW was actually useful! Ok it was bugged and over the top, but not by much. IMO, using all of his abilities, a VW should be able to pull at least double the threat he does now. I like the idea of this talent, but I'm not sure we should have to put talent points in to have them hold aggro. We have to pump in a ton of points to keep them alive IF they have aggro, that's enough for me. Just increase baseline threat, or roll this into Demonic Brutality.
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http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_post_3_1_specs/ Lephlock 80 Demonology Warlock <TEAM AWESOME> - Earthen Ring US |
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February 02, 2009, 03:43 PM
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#34 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Billhelm 80 Human Warlock Blackhand US PvE Guild: Fallen Legends Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 56/0/15 |
Re: Threat issues
I don't remember having much of an issue with Voidwalker threat - if you send him in ahead of time, most melee mobs are dead by the time he would lose threat and they'd come after you. But that was a while ago. I leveled as Siphon Life/Fel Guard in Wrath of the Lich King and threat is a non issues with that spec, 5 guys can beat on you at once and it doesn't really matter. At 80 once decently geared this is also not really an issue... In raids, I don't have many threat problems that a SoulShatter can't fix. |
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February 02, 2009, 04:30 PM
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#35 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Pyrea 80 Blood Elf Paladin Blackhand Euro PvE Guild: seppuku Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/53/18 |
Re: Threat issues
Coming from the other end of the stick, I have to say that in 5 man heroics at least I have next to zero threat problems as a (protadin)tank. I have had players doing 2300-2400 on a boss and my threat dealt with it perfectly well. Even since the fix to SotR (Rank 1) and JoL aggro being wiped. My dps/gear tool tells me I should have ~4000 tps raidbuffed, and a gear capped prot paladin should be able to push 6k. So ranged will pull aggro at (1.3*4000)=5200 dps or (6000*1.3)=7800 dps respectivly. (130% aggro for mob stealing). my group buffed tps is around 3000-3200 atm in heroics. I really cannot see people over aggroing unless they grossly outgear me. If they do outgear me they should know how to maximise dps while throttling tps (maybe dont use orc racial+trinket+backdraft during bloodlust  )I dont know anythingmuch about warriors and druids, and even less about deathknights, but a prot paladin using the standard 969696 rotation -shouldnt- be having aggro problems in a tank+spank situation such as patchwerk or sartharion (simple mode), and should not be being pushed for aggro on other fights. I remember being frustrated about threat while raiding as a warlock in BC, but now that threat has been "simplified" (BoSalv was rolled into +threat for tanks) I rarely see people creeping up behind me on OMEN.
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My Blog:wowmb.net/forums/blogs/derzerfetzer Pyrea: Level 80 Protection Paladin-Blackhand EU Derzerfetzer: Level 80 FG/Ruin Warlock-Blackhand EU |
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February 02, 2009, 05:03 PM
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#36 (permalink) |
Status: Darkbinder
Character Info
Aily 80 Human Warlock Doomhammer US PvE Guild: Arisen Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: Threat issues
Is the Fel Armor ticking heals still giving us horrible amounts of healing aggro? |
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