| Instances & Raiding The PvE side to 80... everything relating to instances and raiding. From Wailing Caverns to Uldaar and beyond! |
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March 02, 2009, 10:58 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dizzygnome 80 Gnome Warlock Turalyon Euro PvE Guild: Disposable heroes Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/41/30 |
Raid progression with a casual guild
With all the news of the upcoming Ulduar patch I've started to wonder whether it would be possible for a guild as casual as my current to "progress" into EoE10, and possibly even Ulduar10 or beyond after that. My guild, which was started by a real life mate who decided to appoint me raidleader when I joined, has recently started in Naxxramas10. Although I and several other members had no experience there whatsoever we seem to be doing great - we've taken down the spider wing, the construct wing and the first boss in the plague wing. Most bosses take us (myself included) a few tries to learn but we've also one-shot a couple bosses (Noth the Plaguebringer and Patchwerk). What I have noticed during the fights is that while a lot of our members are doing an amazing job there are a few others that aren't pulling their entire weight - for example, the dps I see sometimes varies between 500 and 2500 depending on the player I'm looking at. We're beating enrage timers by seconds. Do you think EoE will be worth a shot once we manage to take down the Frostwyrm Lair? Will that mean I'll be forced to switch out half the dps for people who beat that 2k limit consistantly? And finally, should Ulduar be something I should even concider in the long run? Or to generalize even more: Is it possible to beat raids behind naxx in progression with a group of casual players, or is there a real clear "minimum" that people need to reach in order to progress? Last edited by Dizzygnome; March 02, 2009 at 11:12 PM.. |
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March 03, 2009, 09:01 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Xavron 80 Gnome Warlock Moon Guard US RP PvE Guild: Veritas Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
Our guild is very much casual/RP with a side of raiding (although raiding, as always, is threatening to take over). We started running Naxx-10 back in January and took a few weeks to start clearing it regularly. Our more experienced crew can now clear all of Naxx-10 in about 4.5 hours on a Saturday evening. We generally have (3) very strong DPS, (2) so-so DPS, (2) tanks, (3) healers. One of the healers is often a hybrid. After 2 months, nearly everything in there is a single-shot down, well within enrage timers, wipes are generally due to random issues. We've just started up a second Naxx-10 group on Friday nights. About half the folks are alts of people who go on Saturdays, so there's a mix of experience with the zone. The Friday crew is still working out the kinks and pacing, but they cleared Naxx-10 on their 2nd week. But it took closer to 9 hours total over 2 nights because of wipes and pacing. So, I would do OS-10 first - it's an easier raid in a lot of ways. I would also recommend that you clear Naxx-10 at least twice. If you can do Sarth+1D, you can probably start on EoE. We just beat EoE-10 this past Sunday (our 2nd week, probably the 10th attempt total) with the more experienced raiders. It is very much a DPS race through the first two phases. Your team will need to learn how to stack the sparks and to keep the DPS standing in the sparks. Your team will need to figure out how to run from bubble to bubble in the second phase, while getting the adds down quickly. And the 3rd phase is mostly about learning the pacing and figuring out how to shield yourself at the proper time. As a general rule, I would say that people need to be doing 2200+ on Patchwerk before you'll have a good shot at EoE. And the closer to 2700-3000 DPS on Patchwerk, the better. Grobby might be a good measure - 1500+ on that fight generally indicates that people have figured out how to DPS while moving and avoiding the poison clouds. Sappy is also a good measure because you're avoiding blizzards, with some repositioning, and there's no special buffs going on. If you do take on EoE - take screenshots of Recount at the end of the first two phases. That will show you who is keeping up on damage and who isn't. On our successful attempt, everyone was in the 2400-3200 range for the first two phases. And we barely got Malgy down (phase 3 started with 2:41 left on the enrage timer). |
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March 03, 2009, 11:26 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
Status: I am Death
Character Info
Darksumoner 80 Human Warlock Tanaris US PvE Guild: Samsara Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
Not to mention a Big part of Mally is that third phase its very hard to get used to at first and will take a while for some. Recount also will show you who has the highest ticks there as well. My guild has taken to the 111 2 111 2 for ease of use but... Its still better to only stack 2 times then blow the spark so 11 2 11 2 Thats what i was doing last night and had led the Raid in 25m with 25 stacks and did well over the next person in the raid. My big thing about raiding is You have to go in there and Try. Plain and simple people dont magicaly know how to fly that drake around watching a video. People dont magicaly learn to run past frogger or jump to thad by watching a video You have to learn how to do it most of the time by trial and error.
__________________
I think that you shall Die NOW!!! Haatoom Attack!!!! |
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March 03, 2009, 11:57 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Trophi 80 Blood Elf Warlock Doomhammer Euro PvE Guild: Essence of Mercy Talent Spec: 3/15/55 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
LOL we get to first boss in spider wing and then die. I'm trying to get people to read up on what others have done so that we have some idea of what to do but I have a feeling that we are so casual we're laying down! 
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March 03, 2009, 12:10 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dizzygnome 80 Gnome Warlock Turalyon Euro PvE Guild: Disposable heroes Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/41/30 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
It's great to hear theres other "casuals" have made it that far, really makes me want to give it a shot at some point To add, we're already clearing voa10 and os10 whenever we can, we were planning to try with 1 drake up last week but unfortunately one of our halers couldnt be on so we pugged the last spot. We figured it might be better to take him down the usual way. I completely agree about going in there and trying. As I said I have no experience in Naxxramas at all, I watch the videos and so on to get prepared but after that I just take the fight step by step. Gluth gave us some problems due to the chow, so I had 2 people kite instead of one. Because of some small mistakes with the stacking we didn't make Thaddius' enrage timer the first time, so I focussed on getting all the charges stacked. Plans for this week are to give os+1 a shot, and to clear out naxx (or at least reach the Frostwyrm lair). Will keep a close eye on the dps, so I'll know who I need to drag through a couple more heroics ;) |
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March 03, 2009, 12:23 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Malevevely 70 Undead Warlock KJ US PvP |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
My guild is very casual. We raid two nights a week and full clear all the 10 man content. We used to be a progression guild but due to RL stuff I stepped down as raid lead. We just dropped back down to casual 10 mans for fun. We full clear naxx in a few hours and clear everything else on the 2nd night. The coldarra daily will teach your raid all you need to know about stacking the debuff on maly. The 10 man focus is nice because if you have some spare time you can jump into a 25 man pug on an off night. My server has been great for pugs most of them are well organized and clear whatever content we are doing (full naxx 25, VoA, Sarth, EoE, I even did a full pug sarth 3D on my warrior) |
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March 03, 2009, 01:17 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Xavron 80 Gnome Warlock Moon Guard US RP PvE Guild: Veritas Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
We do the 11 2 pattern as well. The hardest part has been dealing with putting the bubble up. We have to remember to make sure we have combo points in addition to energy. Phase 1 and 2 we pretty much have down now - just need to keep from losing people during those phases. I would say we have about 6 really dedicated raiders, with the rest casual. These are folks who like raiding, but don't like the 25-person scene. For the first few Malgy runs, the higher-end folks are the ones who get first invites to Malgy. We do OS after our weekly meetings on Wed (takes 1-2 hours - because we're trying to get +1D down consistently). Malgy is our Sunday evening, 2 hour raid slot. And folks go to Naxx-10 on either Friday or Saturday night for 5 hours. Which is approaching the upper limit of folk's raiding commitment. Especially if one of the Naxx's runs over into Monday. As always, we need a few more healers and tanks. The real problem is going to be once Ulduar hits. If it's like Kara/ZA, you'll have to run Naxx-10 weekly in order to get people geared up enough for Ulduar-10. All depends on how big a jump Ulduar-10 is over Naxx-10. Our rule for Naxx-10 was "blue or better in nearly all slots, at least IL/175". For Ulduar, we're probably going to go with a hard and fast, "IL/200 in all slots". It's not perfect, but it's an objective measure. |
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March 03, 2009, 06:00 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
loneknight 74 Human Warlock Quel'dorei US PvE Guild: http://wowmb.net/forums/n/a Profile: |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
Hi my name is Loneknight. I am a 74 demo lock looking to get started on raids with a guild. I have always worked solo while leveling ,but I am ready to start working hard with a guild . If you feel you could use me let me know. I check in here everyday ,so I will look for your reply. Iam willing to transfer my toon....Loneknight
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March 05, 2009, 01:27 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dizzygnome 80 Gnome Warlock Turalyon Euro PvE Guild: Disposable heroes Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/41/30 |
Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
As far as I know we can use some more casters, but it's probably best if you whisper me about on Turalyon so we don't go too much offtopic here ;) |
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March 06, 2009, 01:05 PM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Re: Raid progression with a casual guild
My guild has become less and less casual, however in the end we do not force raiding from members. However what instead applies is "we do not have to take you on a raid" which basically means people who don't make effort are not taken. My guild's officers are farsighted enough to "raise up" people, but if people are generally awful, they'll try to offer constructive advice before holding back on invites if those players will not make any effort. If DPS are doing below 1800 on patchwerk, then there is something chronically wrong. Usually players who score DPS below 1500 regularly (and don't rise past 2K with gear) have a poor spec, poor rotation and poorly itemised gear, because they don't understand their class or even consider the benefits. Fury warriors with all their points in fury who managed to fail to max out flurry, for example. An odd "shaped" spec is usually badly filled and badly played. It's best to give this players a complete chat over, starting with the basics "this is your staple DPS skillset, these talents don't help, these will, try this spec and these attacks" and watch their damage rocket. These are usually the same players not on these sites and so on. They are savable. As usual, I have a point. Chat to them. If they're rocking a pvp spec, they will lose a lot of damage but not so little they can't pass 2K eventually. 3.1 will allow them to dual spec. If possible find a spec that works for both pvp and pve, even if it's not optimal it probably beats what they're using now. Remind them which skills to use and more. Basically, see if you can educate them, or encourage them. If they're not really young or really stupid, point them at a class site, even if they don't get the complexities of it, they'll probably improve a lot. Casual guilds cannot expect as much from members are more hardcore ones, but at the same time, the raid contains 9 other people and it'll work out better for the whole group if they play better. Even if you cannot force them to optimise (whether through them being stubborn or your guild being like that) you can definitely get them to squeeze more out at no personal expense to them. I know you can't force them to put more into the game, but you can definitely help them get more out. It's not elitist to look at a player and say "I know how you can do better" and then offer great advice. Just be polite but honest and they'll understand. How far you're willing to go is up to how casual you really are though. I do have some bad news. Malygos needs a group where the DPS can knock 6 million health away in 5 minutes to have a good shot. 2K DPS per DPSer won't cut it. If you want to do more than OS/naxx/voa you'll need to get more and more tight with optimising DPS. |
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