| Instances & Raiding The PvE side to 80... everything relating to instances and raiding. From Wailing Caverns to Uldaar and beyond! |
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June 25, 2009, 12:10 PM
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#1 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Fizzik 80 Blood Elf Warlock Dunemaul US PvP Guild: Ghosts of Damnation Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
10's vs 25's
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It's irritating that they're continuing to make 25's the benchmark of higher level gear. Was hoping that this new raid would get rid of that distinction. I moved from a larger guild running 25 mans (where I spent most of my time on 'standby') to a small guild running 10 mans (where I'm active every run). I've pugged a ton of both 10's & 25's. From what I've seen, 25 is generally easier than 10's (Ulduar is harder, but there's no reason it needs to be, it's just scaled that way) since there's more room for error and more buffs/skills that are available. 10's also tend to be more fun (for me anyway) since it's 10 people talking and contributing rather than 5 talking and 20 staying silent in bigger raids (whether or not that's the case in most 25's, I don't know, although it's human nature to open up more in smaller groups). I would much prefer if 10's were just scaled to be hard for groups of 10, 25 to be hard for groups of 25 and the loot equal. This gives all raiders a crack at getting their gear in either format. I can see how this would make the 25 man raids less attractive, but they would still be run (after all, it's another chance you get your drop) and it wouldn't make 10's irrelevant after you've geared up (my warrior alt is in the limbo where 10's no longer give me anything useful, pugging 25's is an annoying and unreliable option, and most decent guilds running 25's already have their MT/OT's). Why should 25's be the benchmark for the best gear? |
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June 25, 2009, 12:16 PM
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#2 (permalink) | |
Status: Darkbinder
Character Info
Aily 80 Human Warlock Doomhammer US PvE Guild: Arisen Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
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1 members liked this post. 1 members didn't.
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June 25, 2009, 12:45 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
 
Status: Subscriber
Character Info
Dyson 80 Human Warlock Scilla US PvP Guild: Eden Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
If 10s would be as good gear as 25s, I doubt 25s would exist for sort of that reason. I agree with the negatives to doing 25s. I do like the feeling of accomplishment that 25 of us were able to coordinate together to get something down, but given the amount of extra time and effort it takes to get there, I would sooner do 10s if there was no other incentive to do 25s. One thing about the 25s and the reason I don't see it going away is that almost by necessity the 10s have to be tuned down because it's not likely you will have a shaman or spriest or boomkin. With 25s, it's almost a given you will have at least one of each major class especially if it is a guild run that has recruited for the classes they need. So the 25s still represents an encounter that is tuned to requiring everyone to work as a team or you are screwed. The 10s always have to have a little leeway in what class mix you bring to the encounter because you don't have the room to represent every buff. So in essence, 25s are harder, but the gear makes it worth it, and the encounter is significantly different especially the cutting edge ones due to the mix of classes you bring in to the encounter. Maybe they could move 25s down to 20s or 15s. That would be an interesting compromise in boss tuning. |
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June 25, 2009, 12:50 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Mekca 70 Human Warlock Lightbringer Euro PvE Guild: The Essentials Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 7/42/12 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
i rather walk 10 mans than 25. Mostly because our guild is just a few short for 25. But its harder on most 10 mans to do stuff. You need to step up more in a 10 than a 25. So therefor i like 10. Gear wise at this point 25 are better. But would be a good thing if that changed a bit. I like the idea of groups in a smaller proportion. Like 15 or 20. Maybe someday ;) |
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June 25, 2009, 01:22 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Re: 10's vs 25's
Disagree with that, 10 mans are much easier at Ulduar level. I've seen hard modes pugged at 10-man level and mine isn't exactly the most progressed server. The other thing is organisationally, 10 mans are a simpler proposition. Getting 10 people to know and gear for an encounter is a whole lot easier than getting 25. That said, I like that all content is available for 10 man groups in Wrath, it makes it easier for more people to see all of the end game - I saw a lot of guilds in The Burning Crusade who were very good at Kara level but just couldn't push on and get the numbers needed for further raids, the skill of the players was never the issue, it was just their inability to recruit and organise a larger guild. They should have been able to enjoy BT, MH and SWP every bit as much as someone who got into a better organised or bigger guild. |
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June 25, 2009, 01:28 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Re: 10's vs 25's
I have to xfer to your server rofl... but I agree that the organizational work required for a 10s is way easier then 25s. You can already get equal ilvl gear to ulduar 25 on 10man harde mode so personally i don't see a problem if you want to stick to 10s exclusively |
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June 25, 2009, 01:38 PM
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#7 (permalink) | ||
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Character Info
Fizzik 80 Blood Elf Warlock Dunemaul US PvP Guild: Ghosts of Damnation Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
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For my money, 10's are still (or at least could be designed as) more of a challenge than 25's. There you have to work around limitations and really have to coordinate. Think about (my point of reference for 25's is still Naxx...) the 25 vs 10 man 4 horsies or Loetheb... 10's offered a bit of a challenge, 25's are just zergfests. |
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June 25, 2009, 01:39 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: 10's vs 25's
This could all be wrong. Maybe 10 and 25 drop the same gear, e.g. ilvl 232 for normal modes ilvl 245 for heroic modes ilvl 258 for heroic modes with only XX attemts/no wipes why do I say that? Because apparently both 10 and 25 man versions of the colliseum drop the same emblems of Triumph. Emblems of triumph give access to ilvl 245 loot. I don't have the source for the emblem drops right now, all I'm saying could be wrong, but we should wait until we know more before complaining/arguing 
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June 25, 2009, 01:39 PM
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#9 (permalink) | |
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Status: Subscriber
Character Info
Dyson 80 Human Warlock Scilla US PvP Guild: Eden Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
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eg you can't get T8.5 on hard mode 10man and a variety of other things. |
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June 25, 2009, 01:43 PM
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#10 (permalink) | ||||
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Character Info
Fizzik 80 Blood Elf Warlock Dunemaul US PvP Guild: Ghosts of Damnation Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: 10's vs 25's
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