| Instances & Raiding The PvE side to 80... everything relating to instances and raiding. From Wailing Caverns to Uldaar and beyond! |
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October 23, 2009, 01:30 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
So, I've pretty much rolled lock for the short 'wow career' that I've had thus far. The thing that irks me the most is the lack of understanding of class mechanics. To me, being a GM/RL means you at least know the core mechanics and doings of a spec. When it comes to Demo locks, THEY JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!  No matter how I put it, no matter how i write it out, they still don't seem to understand why it's important to have one in a 25 man raid. Not only that, they believe that gearing demo locks is last priority and a "free buff is a free buff". ?????? WUT ????? The ignorance is killing me...  Unfortunately the server I'm on currently lacks any other raiding guild that are actually looking and transferring seems kinda bleh since I've done that before and met with devastating results. Although a lot of content is puggable, it doesn't mean it's easy content for everyone, making it harder to just go guildless and pugging. they make me go    :2fu nny:
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October 23, 2009, 01:46 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
Well, while I have toons on Demon Soul US... they are lowbie Alliance toons that I was using to test stuff out on BEFORE Burning Crusade. However, you are correct. My BIGGEST frustration with Raid/Guild Leaders going back to Everquest with my Necromancer was most don't understand what classes other than Warriors, Clerics/Priests, and Wizards/Mages can do (in EQ toss in every other class except Necros and Pallies, maybe Rangers). For some reason they didn't think the MOST powerful solo class could DPS in a Raid. When I got up to Raiding in Original WOW, AS A DEMO-LOCK, to have the Raid Leaders insist that I pull out that worthless Imp was just too much. We are talking about a 500 HP buff IF the tanks stay in range of the Imp! And IF the Lock stays in Range of the Imp so it doesn't go POOF. Rags in MC was a particular sore spot with me. I joined the Unscheduled Raid Group (URGE) late in the game, and didn't have FR gear to speak of. We'd wipe CONSTANTLY on Rags if I had the damn Imp out. But the moment I ignored the Raid Leader and pulled out the Felpuppy, low and behold Rags went down like a wet noodle (Master Demo Buff through phase 1 and 2, Demonic Sac for Phase 3). |
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October 23, 2009, 01:52 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Seurot 80 Undead Warlock Arthas US PvP Guild: Remorseless Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 3/14/54 |
Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
I've never had a demo lock in raid so I dont' know if I'd say it was an absolute necessity. But if there is one its fine, though I wouldn't say we had to gear him before others. |
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October 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
Yeah, every server has its raiding skill/knowledge level. Some servers still have not taken down any Ulduar or ToC hardmodes, some servers have 5-6 guilds that have done Yogg+0 and Tribute to Insanity. Just do some research on which servers have a good number of raiding guilds clearing higher content and they should have a fairly solid percentage of knowledgable guilds. Also pay attention to server congestion though. I was on literally the 2nd worst raiding server in the US as far as progression and ended up transfering to a good raiding server with good latency and no login queues. Just find a server that has 20+ guilds that have downed Yogg25 and ToC normal and that are working on hardmodes, create an Alt on that server and see how the connection is, trade chat, etc, then start researching the guilds, when their raid times are, etc, apply to the ones you like and go from there. If the guild you get into doesn't work out, there should be ~5-6 guilds in the same raiding level for you to move to. That would be my suggestion. |
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October 23, 2009, 02:05 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
probably you should find a guild with a more competent guild leader and a fairer loot system. Seem to be two separate issues. |
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October 23, 2009, 02:24 PM
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#6 (permalink) | ||||
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Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
Quote:
Well, if I were you I wouldn't dare level an alliance on Demon Soul. The fact is, the Horde:Alliance ration is literally 3:1. With that being said, the guild has a couple Horde progression guilds that are either going back for Uld 25 HMs, or ToGC10/25 but none of them are really looking for locks so it's pretty hard to even change guilds. Quote:
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I'm pretty sure Demon Soul is terribad. All you ever hear is other guilds talking crap about other guilds, and guilds going at war against others for no apparent reason... kind of like a one-sided love affair LOL. Quote:
Loot is loot council; so officers/gm comes together and decides who gets it. From my understanding, GM has last word. The way he sees it though, is that Demo locks aren't worth gearing, and the buff that they give (DP) is not comparable to an ele shaman at all. Not only that, it was stated clearly from him that because of their low performance (low DPS) value, giving gear to demo locks is a waste. I can see how it can be two separate issues, but is it really? Demo locks are pretty gear dependent, and having an ignorant GM that can let' go of Pre-wrath/Bc days and actually learn a little about the class mechanics?
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October 23, 2009, 02:37 PM
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#7 (permalink) | |
 
Status: Subscriber
Character Info
Dyson 80 Human Warlock Scilla US PvP Guild: Eden Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
@The question about gearing a demo lock first. The reason you gear out the demo lock before others is that the demonic pact gives a buff out to everyone in the raid scaling to spell power. Give that spell power thing to anyone else in the raid and your just giving one person a buff. However, in practical purposes while it's 'nice' if people were to pass the upgrades to the demo lock, really a 20-30 SP difference on a single gear upgrade is only 2-3 SP extra for the raid which is kind of incremental and hard to see the benefit. The way we have it right now, because I happen to be high on DKP, I tend to get the upgrades first and therefore my spell power pool being largest, I tend to be the demo lock. I think that works out best because there's no drama then with all gear getting shunted to a demo lock. Also it's dangerous to have anyone in a raid feel entitlement over the gear especially if they didn't put the time into the raid team. Imagine you gear out your 1 demo lock who just came on board and then they'll be like becoming a prima donna and eventually "cya", that not only sucks for progression but now you've got mages, spriests etc basically all mad at you for having geared out a guy who just left when they could have used that gear too. And then you have to do it all over again (shunt the gear to the next demo lock?). Just letting DKP or loot council take it's course naturally, your demo lock simply needs to be/should be the lock that is one of the more demonstratively loyal and long standing member of the raid team or guild. About the person talking about recruiting for demo locks, that's doable but kind of hard. I personally prefer recruiting destro and then if they pass muster to be on the raid team long term, and they want to be demo, they can be groomed for that. @The issues with recruiting demo: 1) It would be kind of silly even if we recruited for a demo lock to bring one in that was 300-500 spell power lower and say , OK now you provide the buff instead. If we recruited someone for demo they would already need to be close to as geared as the lock we currently bring in for demo (which is usually the best geared lock at the time) and that significantly lowers your pool of acceptable candidates. 2) When there is only "one" of something in a raid it's hard to be able to judge their raid performance when they are an initiate. It's ideal if you can get an initiate in with the same spec as another lock and then be able to judge general raid DPS and performance against each other. Although theoretically you can use past WoLs to compare against, it's just nicer if it's the same raid since all the buffs etc are identical that raid id. If you bring someone in as demo and you tell them 'dude, your DPS sucks ass', you don't want them to give you the pat response that says 'well im demo of course it does'. You want to be able to fairly judge their DPS potential. Because while it will suck as Demo, they still need to personally perform as well on DPS as they can. You don't want someone to come into a guild as demo and be 4k DPS when really they can push out 5k-6k even if the rest of your casters in the same fight do 6-7k. That's why comparing initiates in similar specs to each other makes life easier there as well. Anyway, it's not impossible for a guild to recruit a de novo demo lock, but it's not as useful as 'promoting from within' both from the gearing and the evaluation perspective. Quote:
My realm, Scilla, is pretty good for raiding in general I think even if we don't have a bunch of world firsts. I think it was better when there were 7-8 good raiding guilds (now there's more like 4-5) on alliance as summer and Ulduar hard modes took their toll. I dont pay much attention to the horde side of Scilla, but I think its similar. @ your other issue of the GM. Go to a guild with a better loot system. Either a GM that understands Demo lock or DKP. If DKP, just go in as destro to do high DPS because another lock in that guild probably has better gear, and then as you get good DKP and better gear, offer to switch to Demo on nights the other demo lock can't make it. In any case, in Ulduar I was pretty anti-demonology because frankly even if ulduar gear my total spell power potential to the raid without trinkets procing was more a smooth 350-380 or so and without the T9 2pc bonus, the uptime was more like 80%. So the difference with ele shaman plus the loss of personal DPS was kind of a wash. I only went demo if our ele shaman couldn't make a raid. But now I give a consistent 430+ spell power to the raid in my ToC25 gear with high uptimes, it's so obviously better than 280 SP from ele shaman it's ridiculously OP benefit to the raid. |
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October 23, 2009, 02:37 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
@well... your GM/raid leaders don't understand your spec and purpose... bad. That's one issue. Loot is being distributed by looking at dps meters apparently, which is totally unfair in my opinion (and stupid). Even worse in your case, the same people that already don't understand how your spec works are the ones who decide. How about: Respec destro, do lots of dps, and grab your gear. Don't care about your guild progression since they don't care about you. |
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October 23, 2009, 02:54 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
@dyson: You bring up really good points here. I don't have a problem that demo locks are not priority to gear, but I do have a problem when they are the last. From my experience thus far is that they gear the already geared, and expect the not-so-geared to pull the same amount of DPS; all the same excusing themselves from this category when their dps sucks as much. The 20-30 SP different to personal vs. raid wide (2-3 sp) is pretty remarkable. The self SP gained is more beneficial, yes, but only to who has it. Even though only a 2-3 sp is gained raid wide, and understandably, it might be hard to see the benefit, but it is 2-3 sp that the entire raid who would benefit from sp wouldn't of had seen. (I know, the counter argument can be the same and so forth, etc). The only problem I have with comparing two locks in one single raid against each other is gear difference (which, IMO, can really make a big difference). I know that, as a whole, gear doesn't truly matter if you're a skilled player but it does weight in on the damage that you're dealing, and the buff that you're giving. I don't argue with the fact that in Ulduar Demo was kind of not the spec to be since it didn't even have a "friendly pet atmosphere" and the T8 bonuses weren't really that great for Demos. I don't see the current guild ever moving over to DKP. At this point in time, I think it would be a better idea then what they are currently doing at the moment. @lilsteele: I was actually thinking of just rolling as Destro and caring only about personal dps, since it seems to being rolling that way. |
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October 23, 2009, 04:05 PM
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#10 (permalink) | |
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Re: The lack of understanding in raid leaders/guild leaders
Quote:
Yeah, WoWProgress has a pretty nice ranking of realms. Basically realms get points for every guild that completes certain content and then the total score is used to determine their placement. This is where I started when looking for my server. Next step is pick 2-3 servers that have the caliber of guilds you are looking for, then create and alt and check them out. It doesn't take really long to figure out if the server is full of stupid kids or more mature folk. Another good way to tell if the guilds are mature is to look on the forums. If they have threads blasting them for being ninjas or other fun drama, best to steer clear cause even if its not all true, drama seems to follow them for some reason. Also, check out their recruitment thread, thats another good way to get an idea of what kind of guild they are. |
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| lack, leaders, leaders/guild, Raid, understanding |
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