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March 09, 2012, 07:57 AM

#1 (permalink)

fizboz

Character Info
Fizzik
80 Blood Elf Warlock
Dunemaul US PvP
Guild: Ghosts of Damnation
Profile: Blizzard Armory

Buffs and Debuffs in MOP

This post explaining the approach to buffs and debuffs that will be taken in MOP has been shortened to highlight only that which is related to Warlocks. The full post is available at the link above.

One design that we haven’t focused on much yet is the plan for various group buffs and debuffs. Some specs have their buffs in place and some do not. Rather than trying to describe each omission, we thought we’d just dump the whole design on you here. As with the rest of the expansion’s systems, we’re not even in beta yet, so there’s plenty of time for things to change.

First, some underlying design goals, so you might understand where we’re coming from. Our main goals for group buffs are:

Make you feel more powerful when grouped with other players.
Give you lots of freedom to invite whom you want. This gets to be a problem when there are too many mandatory buffs spread out among too many specs. . .
…But not offer too many incentives to class stack. If you can achieve every buff with, say, only three players, then there might be a tendency to fill all of the other slots with whoever is best for a particular situation. Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing. For the rest of us, we try to make sure you can finish all of the encounters without feeling like you need a huge roster of folks waiting in the wings for their one fight.
We tend to be more generous to DPS specs, since groups -- especially raids -- already have ample reasons to bring tanks and healers.
We generally don’t want a DPS spec to have to switch to a different spec in the same role just to bring a different buff. An example would be a Combat rogue who has to go Assassination just for a buff. In our experience, players are less likely to switch from a ranged to a melee DPS spec just for a buff, so DPS shaman and DPS druids might bring different buffs.

And finally some notes on the categories below:

The list only includes what we consider “traditional” buffs, such as Prayer of Fortitude. It doesn’t include utility like being great at snaring, battle rez, knock backs, high DPS while moving, and other mechanics. Those ultimately all factor into a raid or Battleground comp as well.
The matrix is a little more complex than it appears. A paladin, for example, can only offer one Blessing at a time, while a warrior can only do one shout at a time. You can’t assume one character can cover every buff or debuff listed below at the same time.
Some of these are active (you must cast them, like Prayer of Fortitude) while others are passive. Note that totems no longer bring passive buffs as a rule.
You’ll see several categories consolidated or gone. Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves. Magical resistance we just removed from the game, though there are some abilities that provide magical damage reduction.
We are still likely to use the design that hunters, especially Beastmaster hunters, can fill in for missing buffs or debuffs by using certain pets.

As always, we’d love to get your feedback on this design.

Buffs

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

Debuffs

Magic Vulnerability
Effect: +8% spell damage taken
Example: Curse of the Elements
Brought by: Any rogue, any warlock
Slow Casting
Effect: -30% casting speed
Example: Mind-numbing Poison
Brought by: Any death knight, any rogue, any warlock

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March 09, 2012, 09:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
D1RE Character Info Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP Fits with the theme of trying to put 10 mans on the same difficulty as 25 mans (let's not start a debate about which is harder, we got mmo champion for that) as one of the biggest issues you run into with 10 mans is getting a good setup together as different fights require different mechanics and progression on HM atm pretty much requires a big roster of available characters and every single slot is that much more vital. Mechanics will still punish that, but not quite as badly as you're not likely to be stuck in a dilemma of missing an important buff and taking an optimal spec for the encounter. In 25 mans you can afford to have a demo lock on Spine HC, but in a 10 man you might not. A good concept overall imo, let's see how they execute it before judging it though. __________________ Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business.

March 09, 2012, 03:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cormanthor Status: Retired Character Info Cormanthor 85 Orc Warlock Undermine US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Demonology	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP If they can spread the buffs and debuffs well enough such that a wide selection of 6-8 players can bring it all (most of whom are DPS), I think they will score a win. Whether this win will be a landslide victory or a narrow one depends on the execution of the system and the ease with which it is understood by the masses. I say 'by the masses' because with increased flexibility comes the greater chance that something vital may slip through the cracks when you accidentally count the paladin twice for his blessings due to a missing warrior... that you thought was covered by the warlock... etc. __________________ Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.

March 09, 2012, 09:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Irelón Character Info Mysticdude 85 Human Warlock Saurfang Euro PvE Guild: Fállen-Angels Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP I read this. My head hurts. Having a nice malt and a lie down.

March 10, 2012, 11:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
marcevil Character Info marcevil 85 Undead Warlock skywall US PvE Guild: paranormal Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP Doesn't matter for me. They can change what they want. 1 spell or 100 I don't care I am warlock till death and even after.

March 11, 2012, 07:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

Emarisea

Character Info
Fairness
85 Goblin Warlock
Frostmourne Oceania PvP
Talent Tree: Affliction

Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP

Overall, I like the sound of things. Looks good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizboz

Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing.

Not sure if this statement was written as intended. Yes - raiders in general enjoy min-maxing. But no, no raider has ever enjoyed class stacking, except those who get to play that role. Overall, the devs have done well. But I hope they begin and finish each design by asking the question, "How will this class perform here?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizboz

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

I love this. Any warlock is something I've hoped for...for a long time. I love playing affliction and destro, but have never really like demo. I played demo in ICC and at the beginning of Cata to provide the 10% spell power buff. I did so to help my raid team, but still I didnt like the feel of that spec. Koodles to those who did.

Now that I play less progressively, it really hurts when a shaman or a mage isnt present in the group to provide that 6% spell buff. So I have feel forced to go and respect to Demo, though I dont want to.

I do well in all 3 specs, which I think is important for all warlocks to learn. But still, its nice to play the spec you enjoy most. Doing what you like tends to do better anyway.

My only concern with "any warlock" is I'm not sure if this will be dependent on the minions we bring. Does stamina mean we must have an imp? Does spell power mean the felhunter? Or does the warlock have these buffs inherently? Cause as it is now, you would never catch an affliction lock running with an imp or a destro lock running with a fel hunter. So I'd like some clarification on this.

Last edited by Emarisea; March 11, 2012 at 07:50 PM..

March 12, 2012, 10:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
Cursalock Character Info Curzalok 85 Undead Warlock Cho'gall US PvP Guild: Chain Reaction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP They've already said they're turning Dark Intent into a 10% SP buff. Too much drama over the current mechanic, apparently. I'd assume something similar for stamina, maybe Blood Pact will be a cast-able spell.

March 12, 2012, 06:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Emarisea Character Info Fairness 85 Goblin Warlock Frostmourne Oceania PvP Talent Tree: Affliction	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP Ty Cursalock. Haven't kept up as much...so didnt know bout Dark Intent. But that is a most welcome change. Drama?? lol! Was funny how mages used to pass around their crit buff amongst the mages only. So I guess that's why they made DI this way, so that locks couldnt do the same. We had to give it away. But now, I've always got 2-3 people fighting over my DI. Course the guild master wins

March 14, 2012, 05:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
marcevil Character Info marcevil 85 Undead Warlock skywall US PvE Guild: paranormal Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP I always put dark intent in my pet unless someone deserves it.

March 14, 2012, 09:35 AM

#10 (permalink)

Preferra

Character Info
Preferra
90 Human Warlock
Ravenholdt Euro PvP
Guild: Ironforge Guardians
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction Demonology

Re: Buffs and Debuffs in MOP

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcevil

I always put dark intent in my pet unless someone deserves it.

Even on raids? - and I'm not talking about Raid Finder lol raids...