| Individual Talent Discussions In-depth discussion, information and analysis on a talent by talent basis. Please read the "About this section" thread before replying to any threads. |
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February 19, 2007, 12:50 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Demonic Knowledge vs Shadow Mastery
*** Please note the dates on the posts in this thread - see the end pages for most recent information. *** Question: Does DK add onto my drain life and siphon life, like SM does? I'm trying to figure out with would be more beneficial when it comes to shadow damage? Thanks in advance. |
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February 19, 2007, 02:45 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
Character Info
Ryuenza 70 Undead Warlock Magidthorian US PvP Profile: Allakhazams Talent Spec: 5/45/11 |
Re: Demonic Knowledge vs Shadow Mastery
yes it does.. |
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February 19, 2007, 06:37 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kobekid 80 Human Warlock Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Good With Ketchup Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Demonic Knowledge vs Shadow Mastery
It's pretty close, but 5/5 SM > 3/3 DK. |
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February 19, 2007, 10:17 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Demonic Knowledge vs Shadow Mastery
What about 3/5 SM vs 3/3 DK? One of my build ideas has three points to spare for one of these talents, but I can't figure out which is more effective. |
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February 19, 2007, 11:25 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Orina 65 Gnome Warlock Maelstrom US RP PvP Guild: Blitzkrieg Corps Talent Spec: 45/5/6 |
Re: Demonic Knowledge vs Shadow Mastery
I would suggest reading the whole thread called 'Demonic Knowledge: broken?' just read everything, it really is a good source for this question. I would say that for drains, shadow mastery is better, because it amplifies your +damage as opposed to just adding to it. |
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March 03, 2007, 06:45 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Theoreycraft Consulting Requested: SM > Demonic Knowledge?
Hi, I just considered to recalculate Shadow Mastery over Demonic Knowledge for pure damage effects. As the DK bonus is flat and SM is a percentage after all gear, I guess there is a certain point where they both meet. DK raises very slightly if I get more Stamina/Intellect on my gear, but this is almost to low to really consider. A side node: Is MD 10% + SL 5% actually the same as the 15% DS Succubus bonus? In a PvP scenario I see the advantage if I sac the Succubus at the right time to stay with the same or similar damage. I am only using shadow spells so this is all ok. We compare Siphon Life/Demonic Knowledge to SM/SL. Demonic Tactics can be ignored for well-known reason (next patch nerf). Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, neej |
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March 04, 2007, 02:42 AM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kobekid 80 Human Warlock Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Good With Ketchup Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Theoreycraft Consulting Requested: SM > Demonic Knowledge?
I'd do it, but I'm unable to find the conversion rate to how much your stamina and intellect affect your pets' stats. |
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March 04, 2007, 02:31 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: Theoreycraft Consulting Requested: SM > Demonic Knowledge?
Hmm, I consider this tree now, as a merge of both ways: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Iq0rfRfkMZbxczIiz0xs Currently, I have 3 points in Dem Resilience I would put in the affliction tree then (2/5 SM is better than nothing I think). The only queation I have now is whether I should take the 3 Demonic Knowledge points to get 5/5 SM. I doubt that 6% shadow damage is about the same as the flat 106 damage bonus I get from my pet. But then again it's sooo difficult to calculate 
Last edited by neej; March 04, 2007 at 02:49 PM.. |
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March 04, 2007, 04:53 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kobekid 80 Human Warlock Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Good With Ketchup Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Theoreycraft Consulting Requested: SM > Demonic Knowledge?
It's not that hard to calculate. I'm just interested in the formula of how your pets' stats scale with your stats or level. You mind looking up your imp's Stamina and Intellect and then you're Stamina and Intellect (make sure to take off Fel Armor)? It depends on how much spell damage you have. If your Shadowbolt is hitting for about 1800 with both 2/5 SM and 0/3 in Demonic Knowledge, then Shadow Mastery is better. Here's why: First make sure you understand that the 106 damage that you are getting (106 is the number I'm using for your purposes) only equates to a 91 damage increase on Shadowbolt after considering the spell coefficient (.857). Also assume that you're using Fel Armor. So: 91 damage + (G(.857)+572) = (G(.857)+572)(6%) Where G is your spell damage from gear and Fel Armor. The 91 damage is from Demonic Knowledge because 106 * .857 is 90.8, rounded off to 91. 91 damage + (G(.857)+572) = (G(.857)+572)(1.06) 91 = (G(.857)+572)(1.06) - (G(.857)+572) 91 = (G(.857)+572)(1.06 - 1) 91 = (G(.857)+572)(.06) 1517 = G(.857)+572 945 = G(.857) 1103= G So right off the bat, it seems like you would need 1103 spell damage to have 3/3 SM to be worth it more than 3/3 Demonic Knowledge. But we haven't counted the buffs yet. The damage buffs to your build that I would count are: 4% Shadow Mastery (because both builds have it) 5% Soul Link 10% Succubus 10% Curse of Shadows Having 1103 spell damage and counting none of the buffs above would give an average 1517 damage Shadowbolt. That means our next equation is. (G(.857)+572) = 1517(.96)(.95)(.9)(.9) where G is the spell damage you need from your gear AFTER you'd take away the buffs to both builds. This will give the raw number. G(.857)+572 = 1121 G(.857) = 549 G = 640 If you have 640 spell damage in gear (including 130 from Fel Armor), the 6% from SM will do the same damage as 3/3 in Demonic Knowledge and receiving the 91 damage bonus I showed earlier. Checking my math, when you have 640 spell damage, you get: A 1565 Shadowbolt with Shadow Mastery against a 1571 Shadowbolt from Demonic Knowledge. That's pretty close to equal, so it would be safe to say that if you have 650 spell damage WITH Fel Armor, then Shadow Mastery becomes better than Demonic Knowledge. Just remember that that statement came off the increase of 108 spell damage figure you gave me, so results may slightly vary. |
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March 04, 2007, 04:57 PM
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#10 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Kobekid 80 Human Warlock Kilrogg US PvE Guild: Good With Ketchup Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Theoreycraft Consulting Requested: SM > Demonic Knowledge?
Quote:
Oh and because of this, for maximum DPS, you'd get more out of a build like 30/21/10 compared to a build like 30/31/0. Assuming Shadowbolt is your main spell, you'll be able to get off 20% more of them. Becuase all you really gain by putting 10 more points in Demonology is 20% damage mitigation and .5% DPS increase. Bane is a lot better option for DPS. Last edited by Canadianpimp; March 04, 2007 at 05:02 PM.. |
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| consulting, demonic, knowledge, knowlege, mastery, requested, Shadow, Shadow Mastery, sm, theoreycraft |
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