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August 09, 2008, 09:57 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Lessic 80 Undead Warlock Darkspear US PvP Guild: Tarren Mill Deathguard Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 56/0/15 |
CoE vs CoA
Lately I've been debating whether to use CoE or Curse of Agony on my dot rotation. CoE has become immensely more useful since the last patch so for instance/raid bosses I think it's most likely the best choice... but for trash mobs and PvP I am still debating. Right now I am running sl/sl just to grind some honor for a bit of PvP gear and have been using CoE for the most part. Pros: 5-minute duration, which means one cast per targets as opposed to multi casts which takes more mana plus it's 5 mana less then Curse of Agony to cast (not that, that's much to mean anything lol). The CoE boosts all other dots and spells (now that it works for both shadow and fire) which means you get more life return from siphon life and life drain. Cons: You lose the damage gained from Curse of Agony (not sure how it figures out with the percent gained from damage increase from CoE) which does the most damage of your dots. This is without considering putting pts into malediction or imp Curse of Agony and using amp curse for Curse of Agony Just looking for opinions on what the best option would be. |
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August 09, 2008, 10:10 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Akrab 80 Undead Warlock Sunstrider Euro PvP Guild: Frenzy Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/17/0 |
Re: CoE vs CoA
You mean Curse of Elements. :P Well, there should always be at least one Warlock that casts Curse of Elements, aside from the damage you do, it's a great boost for the raid.
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Pizjub for President! |
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August 09, 2008, 10:26 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Re: CoE vs CoA
If you have to buff the raid: Curse of Elements If you have chance to use a Damage Curse: Curse of Doom, until such time as the boss has less than 1 minute to live, then Curse of Agony. Trash: Curse of Agony if it will live for around 24 seconds and make Curse of Agony Worthwhile, CoE otherwise. PvP: CoT On casters, CoW or CoE on Melee. There have been an awful lot of threads on the topic - I can only suggest that you take the time to look through a few to examine the options: The Warlocks Den Forums
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Lefric - 80 Rogue Theleb - 70 Warlock Celegorm - 70 Hunter Kahlye - 70 Shaman - Gaerun 62 Paladin - Weldrake 80 Death Knight |
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August 11, 2008, 02:16 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Backflip Warlock US PvP |
Re: CoE vs CoA
Yea I am having the same Issue I am not really sure which would be a better choice. Has someone crunched the numbers on this? Like how more more DPS do you gain from Curse of Agony than CoE? |
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August 11, 2008, 05:17 AM
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#5 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Bellamorte 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Legion of Discord Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: CoE vs CoA
Quote:
Generally speaking, when I raid, we usually have the warlock with the lowest shadow damage doing CoE, as they lose the least damage overall. For 5mans however, Curse of Agony/D are superior, and for 10man raids when there are only a small amount of casters (i.e you and a mage) |
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August 11, 2008, 07:25 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
Character Info
Aldgit 70 Human Warlock Emerald Dream Euro PvE Guild: Renaissance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: CoE vs CoA
I think you should also consider where CoR sits in this process, even with trash mobs. Certainly throwing up CoR as one of the lock duties on the vast majority of mobs and bosses now produces significant improvements for us and http://wowmb.net/forums/f66/27103-curses_you/ is a good summary for reference. If two locks in a raid then will be CoE, CoR duty, with a 3rd or more free to choose Curse of Agony or CoD depending. CoR is, as per the guide, flexible and will be replaced with Curse of Agony / CoD where required. Obviously I am referring to raids only. |
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August 12, 2008, 01:07 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Holdwine 80 Gnome Warlock Sentinels US RP Guild: Blades of Light Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: CoE vs CoA
I use Curse of Elements on trash in raids or when farming or doing dailies. As Affliction, I get a better return on health from Siphon Life and Drain Life if I have CoE on the mob. I remember testing it once while soloing, but don't remember what the difference is between using it and not using it. But it was enough to convince me. As others have said, if the mob will live long enough for Curse of Agony to run its course I wouldn't feel bad about using it, though. I'll use it in a raid if someone else is on CoE duty. |
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August 12, 2008, 02:19 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: CoE vs CoA
When you're thinking about various DoTs and whatnot, there are two numbers you need to worry about, DPS and DPCT. Damage per Second is pretty straightforward, but Damage per Cast Time is a little more complex. It varies a LOT from player to player (buffs, gear, raid composition), so the best thing to do is use an addon like Dr. Damage to get this information. Usually, a curse of doom does a little less overall DPS than several curses of agony. The thing is, though, that CoD only requires 1.5 seconds per 60 seconds to maintain, whereas Curse of Agony takes 3.75 seconds per 60 seconds (24 second duration). In that 3.75 seconds, you could have cast just about an extra shadowbolt in a curse of doom rotation over the curse of agony rotation, and that usually ends up working out to favor Curse of Doom for most, if not all, gear levels. The same reasoning is why lots and lots of shadow-destro warlocks still cast immolate: the amount of damage you do for only a 1.5 sec cast time is high enough to warrant it (it's better than 60% of a shadowbolt). Once your gear levels are kind of high, it actually often works out that a CoE is even better than a CoD/A, even on solo stuff or in 5-mans where there's no other warlock. If 10% of your overall non-curse DPS is about the DPS of your damaging curses, it's probably easier to just use CoE. The breakpoint for me was at 1k personal DPS. Once I cross 1k DPS, CoE is about as good as CoD, since CoD doesn't scale as much as it should given its duration. If there is anyone else in the group/raid that does shadow, frost, fire or arcane damage, CoE is always the curse to use, since the extra damage from two or more DPSers is huge. |
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August 13, 2008, 01:34 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Darthbasket 70 Human Warlock Stormscale US PvP Guild: Anvil Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40 |
Re: CoE vs CoA
Personally I always use Curse of Elements. Without talent points it's a 10% boost to any type of damage I do, as well as boosts every other caster's damage and that is going to be a hell of a lot more damage output than my Curse of Agony will ever do. Like stated before Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Elements is going to boost the entire raids DPS which makes for a more successful raid. When it comes to 5 man dungeons it really depends on your group make-up if you have more casters than melee then I would use Curse of Elements. If you have more Melee, throw up your Curse of Recklessness. You have to remember that your Curse of Agony is on a 21 second timer. Damage starts out small and gradually increases over the duration of the spell. If the mob is going to go down quickly it really is a waste of a good curse if you can only get half way through the spell duration. |
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August 14, 2008, 06:07 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Re: CoE vs CoA
MH+ Most guilds won't bring more than 1 affliction lock (some used to bring 2 before patch if they had a lot of mages) and the only reason they will bring you is for curse of elements. It is a sad truth and affliction should do better dps but 21/40 simply does to much damage. Either way a malediction'd curse of elements takes priority over all other curses. One thing you may do if affliction is work out a rotation with a destro lock where they do a regular elements for the first minute so you can start with an amp doom but otherwise your 'cursed' (wow thats a bad joke) to cast elements every time. (Well not on trash but yeah....) If destro any fight where you are able to get doom off (it wont be absorbed by a bubble or the boss wont die to fast) it is superior to agony as it saved you global cooldowns and mana (this is assuming you aren't already casting a raid benificial curse). When I tank illidan and the warrior is about to pick him up I always put on weakness for the first 5 or so seconds so that the tank has less of a chance to be unexpectedly smashed for 3 large hits in the phase switch. (Just an idea for all the future tanking locks) Summary CoE > Curse of Agony unless CoE is already on the target and you think the doom won't hit. Also reck is more important than Agony on many fights if not all of them. If your tank can handle it and you have 2 locks it should be up. Last edited by Sarudani; August 14, 2008 at 06:09 AM.. Reason: I forgot something |
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