Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it? - The Warlocks Den

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The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions » Discussion Forums » Spells, Talents and DPS Discussion » Raiding Builds » Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

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November 05, 2009, 05:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
Rho Character Info Rhoree 80 Undead Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Talent Spec: 0/30/41	Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it? This is my current specc http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...1f5jfUI,,10676 the 41/30. But i see since from a while ago it's been topped by most locks that raid with me. I'm thinking in changing for full demo. And i know it may not be the best specc for pve right now, but is it worth it? If it is.. what would be the rotation for this? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft will i still use incinerate, or should i swtich for shadow bolt? And i know you don't see many demology warlocks right now, but is anyone still demo?

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November 05, 2009, 06:59 AM

#2 (permalink)

wavecycle

Character Info
Balzhar
80 Undead Warlock
Karazhan Euro PvP
Guild: undecided
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/50/21

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rho

This is my current specc http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...1f5jfUI,,10676 the 41/30.
But i see since from a while ago it's been topped by most locks that raid with me. I'm thinking in changing for full demo. And i know it may not be the best specc for pve right now, but is it worth it?
If it is.. what would be the rotation for this? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft will i still use incinerate, or should i swtich for shadow bolt?

And i know you don't see many demology warlocks right now, but is anyone still demo?

Yes there are demo locks. My rotation (assume CoE already on):
Corr->SB->Imm->SB spam. Refresh DoT's until Decimate pops. Then drop Curse of Agony (if you aren't responsible for CoE, else drop Corr), and then weave as per normal.

I am currently trying out a 0/50/21 build for DP instead of 0/56/15. Working quite nicely. It doesn't have the Meta trinket/hassle, but it has the Devastation +5% to crit. I came 3rd in Ony25 with this spec last night.

November 05, 2009, 09:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
Waine Character Info Waine 80 Human Warlock Feathermoon US PvE Guild: Fortune Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0-13-58	Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it? Wavecycle, Can I assume you are also keeping up LifeTap through your rotation, since you have the Glyph? How Is the Felguard Glyph treating you? Your spec looks interesting enough that I'm going to try it when I'm assigned to keep the 5% crit debuff up on the boss encounters. Thanks for posting this up. Last edited by Waine; November 05, 2009 at 09:16 AM.. Reason: typo

November 05, 2009, 09:42 AM

#4 (permalink)

wavecycle

Character Info
Balzhar
80 Undead Warlock
Karazhan Euro PvP
Guild: undecided
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/50/21

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waine

Wavecycle, Can I assume you are also keeping up LifeTap through your rotation, since you have the Glyph?

Yes, I do keep LT up. It is especially usefull for that extra bit of SP for the Demonic Pact buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waine

How Is the Felguard Glyph treating you?

Its good. The Fel Guard is still an BIG chunk of my damage, much more than Imm. So from a damage point of view, it is Glyph #1.

November 05, 2009, 10:03 AM

#5 (permalink)

dyson

Status: Subscriber

Character Info
Dyson
80 Human Warlock
Scilla US PvP
Guild: Eden
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/13/58

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rho

WHat do you mean 'is it worth it'? It's not worth it for personal DPS, but it is worth it for raid buffs. Since most pugs don't care about demo locks (they just want personal DPS primarily when they're putting together a quick VOA or whatever), you don't see them.

But in guilds, you will see demo locks a lot more because guilds form a longer term team that usually has more likelihood of understanding the tradeoff a demo lock makes for personal DPS vs the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavecycle

...

I am currently trying out a 0/50/21 build for DP instead of 0/56/15. Working quite nicely. It doesn't have the Meta trinket/hassle, but it has the Devastation +5% to crit. I came 3rd in Ony25 with this spec last night.

Have you measured your demonic pact uptime? Your spec sacrifices adding to pet's crit ability so I would be worried the downtime of demonic pact goes down quite a bit.

Also, what is your DPS like on single target? Demo locks are always good on Ony anyway so just saying it works is kind of hard to measure.

November 05, 2009, 10:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
Devicus Character Info Devicus 80 Gnome Warlock thunderhorn Euro PvE Guild: Rise Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it? 5% crit is worth less than the boost from meta, assuming you pop meta every CD and have maxed nemesis, but the baseline talent probably outscales devastation past a certain crit rate. As at 50% crit, 1% crit is actually only 66% more damage. And demo gets a chunk of it's personal damage from dots, which don't crit. Those in itself probably devalue devastation to about 3.5-4% more damage at 0 crit. While meta is worth about 5% at any gear level, if popped every CD. In practice, it's probably a mite less but then devastation is 5%/((100+crit rate)/100) * the amount of your personal damage which crits. Demon form is the best aoe caster thing. Ever.

November 05, 2009, 02:08 PM

#7 (permalink)

wavecycle

Character Info
Balzhar
80 Undead Warlock
Karazhan Euro PvP
Guild: undecided
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/50/21

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyson

Have you measured your demonic pact uptime? Your spec sacrifices adding to pet's crit ability so I would be worried the downtime of demonic pact goes down quite a bit.

No, I haven't measured it. Can you tell me a good way of doing that? I agree with your concern around DP uptime though, but I have the 2piece T9 bonus and that definitely helps; I wouldn't have tried without the T9 it if I was going for raid buff. From appearances, uptime looks good though: it seems to always be up when I look. Checked Fel Crit on lev 83 boss and cleave crit was averaging between 25-40%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyson

Also, what is your DPS like on single target? Demo locks are always good on Ony anyway so just saying it works is kind of hard to measure.

Single target definitely looks like it is up, but I haven't measured to back that up. As an illustration though, I ran HOS hc daily today, and averaged a fraction below 4k. That is definintely more than I was doing in a hc with Meta. Around 3.3-3.5k for single mobs, 4.5k on a boss. Only buffs was drood's mark of the wild and blessing of forgotten kings (8%).

On the upside: In Ony25 last night I was running 816 haste, with a boom in the party, and got 40% crit from recount. Decimation weave was awesome!

November 05, 2009, 02:37 PM

#8 (permalink)

dyson

Status: Subscriber

Character Info
Dyson
80 Human Warlock
Scilla US PvP
Guild: Eden
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/13/58

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavecycle

We record our raids to World of Logs (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis) so if you do that you could check the demonic pact uptime by going to your buffs. This is fully raid buffed as our raids always have a full buff complement.

The thing is that normally pre-T9 bonus, demonic pact uptime was around 90%. Add 10% crit from the pet, and practically it seems to go up close to 100% demonic pact up time. But now take away improved demonic tactics, and I think that will be close to cancelling the T9 bonus I suspect. 1 point might make up some difference but still...

November 05, 2009, 05:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
rooter Character Info rooter 80 Human Warlock Hellscream US PvE Guild: Darksin Talent Spec: 0/15/56	Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it? I like keeping 41/30 as my 2nd spec for trash. The AE damage is top notch and you don't need to worry about getting cleaved by anything when you do it.

November 05, 2009, 05:56 PM

#10 (permalink)

dyson

Status: Subscriber

Character Info
Dyson
80 Human Warlock
Scilla US PvP
Guild: Eden
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/13/58

Re: Demo hybrid for pve.. no longer worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooter

I like keeping 41/30 as my 2nd spec for trash. The AE damage is top notch and you don't need to worry about getting cleaved by anything when you do it.

Neither of your specs are 0/41/30 when I look at your armory though? Why would anyone care about trash though?

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