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September 28, 2009, 09:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
Belthezor Character Info Belthezor 80 Undead Warlock Draenor US PvE PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding Since I live out of the US and am on a US server (mainly because I have RL friends that play on that server) I can never really play with my guild when they have scheduled raids. They play when I am at work, so most of the time I need to pug into raids and thats hard because of the times I play and because many do not like pugging people in to raids. I have found it easier to pug into 10mans, so thats why I tend to do, but on the very few occassions I have done 25man I have enjoyed them too, but the downfall is the amount of down time you get in 25mans. Bio breaks and needing to answer the phone and cats spilling drinks.. and all of those other RL issues that crop up for everyone. I don't mind them, because it happens to everyone every now and then, but still, its not fun spending all that time doing nothing. 10mans are easier to get done in that way. I have to say I do dislike all the versions of the raids out there. Its too much.. 10man/25man should be enough.. or 10man/10man hardmode would be even better IMHO. Having normal and hard mode for both and all the extra gear and stats just seems like a waste of resources to me. A friend of mine who says he likes 10mans way more than 25man has also admitted to missing the cheers of joy when downing a boss in 40man raids though. Im sure many out there feel the same.

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September 28, 2009, 09:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Evictoray Character Info Evictoray 80 Undead Warlock US PvP	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding I'm in a 25man guild on a small server and pugging 10 mans is a real problem. We are one of the top 25 mans on the server and splitting tanks/healers for 10 mans is near impossible. I'd like to find a 10man group like you are all describing, but our 25 man does 3 and possibly 4 nights a week ...... and that's plenty for me.

September 28, 2009, 09:31 PM

#13 (permalink)

TPMdm

Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizboz

(snip)
I don't think that 10 man loot should be inferior to 25 and it's a mistake on Blizz's part that it is. I understand that the envisioned progression (and therefore the loot) is from 25's to 25's and from 10's to 10's, but the reality is that 10 man raiders also do 25's and they do it mainly for the gear. (snip)

I agree I further propose that, since the only difference between 10 and 25, is the number of raiders the only difference in loot should be the number. More drops but not better drops.

September 29, 2009, 12:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
Schiz Character Info Schizm 80 Undead Warlock Aman'Thul Oceania PvE Guild: Novitas Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding I agree totally with TPMdm. ToC has shown that the 10 man raid appears to be harder than the 25 man raid yet the loot doesn't reflect that. Generalise the loot level across the board and just have more of it drop in 25 man.

September 29, 2009, 04:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
Evictoray Character Info Evictoray 80 Undead Warlock US PvP	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding There would be no reason to do 25mans if the loot were the same as 10mans.

September 29, 2009, 05:05 AM	#16 (permalink)
D1RE Character Info Shagina 90 Human Warlock Grim Batol Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding Twice the shot at the loot? __________________ Life is empty, life is meaningless. When we take a life, we take nothing of value. Warlocks are killers. That's all we do, that's all we are. There are no poets in the bitter business.

September 29, 2009, 08:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
Belthezor Character Info Belthezor 80 Undead Warlock Draenor US PvE PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding Well the thing I found interesting from the other thread that was rather heated, and from what I hear a lot, is that people play 25mans because they like them more. Some people say they liked 40mans more and that 25mans and 10mans are just blizz making the game too easy to conform to the masses. Well fine.. keep 25mans so that people that LIKE them can do them. Sure they should drop more loot as mentioned above, but not better. IMHO we should be playing the game we like and enjoy, not out of the desire to get better gear, which is most times too alluring for most.

September 29, 2009, 09:04 AM

#18 (permalink)

Cursalock

Character Info
Curzalok
85 Undead Warlock
Cho'gall US PvP
Guild: Chain Reaction
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction

Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding

Quote:

Originally Posted by D1RE

Twice the shot at the loot?

I'm assuming you mean another chance at an instance that drops the same loot instead of the 25 man itself dropping twice as much loot per person as the ten man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belthezor

Well the thing I found interesting from the other thread that was rather heated, and from what I hear a lot, is that people play 25mans because they like them more. Some people say they liked 40mans more and that 25mans and 10mans are just blizz making the game too easy to conform to the masses.

40 mans certainly felt more epic.... but if you were on a small server they were almost impossible to put together properly, they took an hour to make up even if you were on a large server, and you could have 5-10 people go afk or dc the entire fight and unless it was a tank it wouldn't even matter, so I'm not sure how much more difficult it was.

I think what a lot of people remember about old raiding as being "more difficult" isn't really the mechanics of the raid itself but the effort it took just to assemble a raid or the time it took to get a specific gear set that would enable them to complete a raid.

Here's a warlock relate example of what I mean. Some would say raiding was "harder" because people used to have to be summoned individually, they had to be given health stone individually, even more than one HS at a time. It used to take 20 minutes just to pass out health stones to people in a 40 man raid. Is this more "difficult" or just "time consuming and annoying"? I tend to believe the latter, but I've seen arguments for the former, that we're being "babied" these days because we don't have to do that. But would anyone like it to go back? I doubt it.

Some of it's a valid, some of it isn't, but in the end more people get to see more of the content now than then so overall, whatever they're doing, I think it's more often than not a fair choice.

Quote:

Well fine.. keep 25mans so that people that LIKE them can do them. Sure they should drop more loot as mentioned above, but not better. IMHO we should be playing the game we like and enjoy, not out of the desire to get better gear, which is most times too alluring for most.

As I mentioned above, I assume he's talking about the chance to roll again on the same loot table, not the instance literally providing more loot per person. Correct me if I'm wrong, D1RE.

The gear is a reward for your time investment and gives people the sense of progression and achievement that an entry and 10 points in a database somewhere doesn't. It looks cool. It allows you to tank easier, dps higher, heal more. It allows you to progress tp more difficult content. I totally understand why people get hung up on gear because it is important, and it is part of "the game we like and enjoy". It's the key that opens doors. It's not stock car racing, where everyone is basically given the same car and it's up to the driver to maximize what he has, in this game we can improve our characters.

September 29, 2009, 09:17 AM	#19 (permalink)
Belaide Character Info Belaide 85 Human Warlock Nagrand Oceania PvE Guild: Pinnacle Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Destruction	Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding I prefer the 25 man raids because they're harder to beat. The boss hits harder, he lives longer, there are more adds and more complex game mechanics. I like doing 10 mans as well but they do always feel a little easy mode after doing 25's. __________________ Tempt him not so too far; I wish, forbear: In time we hate that which we often fear.

September 29, 2009, 09:18 AM

#20 (permalink)

Evictoray

Character Info
Evictoray
80 Undead Warlock
US PvP

Re: 10 man raiding vs. 25man raiding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursalock

It's not stock car racing, where everyone is basically given the same car and it's up to the driver to maximize what he has, in this game we can improve our characters.

Exactly, it's like old school, when you "run what ya brung"

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