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November 02, 2010, 03:19 PM
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#11 (permalink) | |
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Re: Haste vs mastery
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The reason being that until you gain enough haste to get the extra tick on immolate (like if you are 50-100 haste BEHIND, immolate's existing ticks will be hasted but without adding one, so actually right at the margin of haste before you gain the next tick, immolate is going to have a compressed timer. But at the exact point a tick is added is when the timer has to extend to include that full tick. And for a bit of haste after that, the timer will compress again, but not as bad as it would be for the haste amounts that occur right before the new tick is added. Does that make sense? I could be wrong on this, but conceptually this is how I was thinking of haste if I had to go demo. If this is the case, then your quoted 1100-1200 zone could be "OK" but doesn't seem like one to explicitly shoot for. You rather want to shoot exactly for the thresholds Samdi mentioned in his post " Ticks Immo +1 284 +2 852 +3 1406 +4 2030 " And outside those thresholds be careful, especially as you get close to adding a tick. Like if you had 1400 haste or 800 haste or 1900 haste, those would be the worst areas of immolate tick compression because it is compressed to be about to give another tick, but not quite. Not as optimal, but not as bad then would be 852-1050 haste or 1406-1602 haste is kind of what I was thinking. |
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November 02, 2010, 05:46 PM
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#12 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Grübber 80 Gnome Warlock Scarlet Crusade US RP Guild: Legionnaire Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Haste vs mastery
I really appreciate all the info and clarification on this issue. Currently in ICC top damage done is between me, and two other classes. I am at 793 haste so i will get some better gear or reforge a bit more for that extra threshold. |
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November 02, 2010, 05:50 PM
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#13 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Eminnett 80 Blood Elf Warlock Aszune Euro PvE Guild: Marauding Camelids Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction |
Re: Haste vs mastery
til the actual live launch release stack for haste and hit caps before going for any mastery. we currently don't really have the gear to make getting a nice mastery rating worth it where as like on the beta, alot of gear is forcing you to stack mastery so it's worth taking the new haste enchants and higher stat gems to balance it... |
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November 02, 2010, 06:43 PM
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Haste vs mastery
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November 02, 2010, 09:17 PM
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#15 (permalink) | |
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Re: Haste vs mastery
I think most of the time the value for haste and mastery are just quite close to each other. But I agree 852-1233 sounds good haste range(depending on gear/buffs) and 1406. Everyone seem to have own opinion about value of haste vs mastery, but most of the times there's no real numbers to back it up. Those stat priorities in that article seem to be exactly same as in BiS EJ simulations so it might not be accurate for casuals. Haste does have other benefits too than increasing conflag damage from each added tick. And 1406 (+5%) is also GCD cap which means after that haste will have less value and I don't see any point trying to go for 2030 haste even if you could. Then keep in mind that your haste and immo ticks aren't necessarily stabile, it's affected by improved soul fire(on dummys especially), black magic, hyperspeed accelerators, speed pot, 5% raid buff(might not always have), bloodlust.. Quote:
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November 03, 2010, 12:10 AM
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#16 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Glargh 85 Undead Warlock Hellscream US PvE Guild: Convictions Talent Tree: Destruction |
Re: Haste vs mastery
I'm not sure what to do here. I've got 1181 haste and 256 mastery. I could turn ~225 of that mastery into haste and get 1406 haste and 31 mastery. EJ said to grab mastery unless you were withing ~100 of a haste plateau. I was planning on sticking with that, unless I found some intriguing information in this thread, but everyone seems conflicted. I'm going to go with my gut here, which tells me it doesn't make enough of a difference for me to worry about right now. |
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November 03, 2010, 01:21 AM
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#17 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Scathbais 90 Undead Warlock Mal'Ganis US PvP Guild: Adult Swim Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Tree: Affliction Destruction |
Re: Haste vs mastery
So does it make sense to reforge into mastery since I cant get my haste from 1160 to 1406?
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A living Warlock = a dead everybody else |
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November 03, 2010, 03:22 AM
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#18 (permalink) |
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Re: Haste vs mastery
It doesn't really matter much now since when cata comes after 1 month all these numbers need to be recalculated. But if you can't reach 1406 haste it may still be beneficial to reach some other caps between 852-1166. |
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November 03, 2010, 04:21 AM
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#19 (permalink) |
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Re: Haste vs mastery
The value of mastery as a stat for DEMO depends in large part on skill level and proc-items. Demo will be a very difficult class to define optimal dps for, and equally difficult to get the most out of. Which is why we should love the class, because it is a "skill" class. Timing and Refreshing your big spells, with your trinket procs, and meta is key to demo. For instance, delaying meta or immo aura till a trinket proc. Saving a molten core proc (up to 11 seconds) for a trinket or meta pop. Refreshing Bane of Doom when you get the perfect storm of Meta + Trinket, and using your fast spells like shadowflame, soulburn-soulfires, felstorm inside your peek dps window. The key to optimizing demo dps is knowing when to delay using stuff for synergistic increases in dps, and when waiting for synergy creates too much of a dps loss. Extremely hard to model, and simcraft doesn't step foot in these waters. So when simcraft says the numbers between haste-crit-mastery are close after the 1406 threshold, mastery may contain more hidden value to it than the rest. |
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November 09, 2010, 03:55 AM
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#20 (permalink) |
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Haste caps / plateaus
Less than month until cata, but since many seem to be still confused about haste (caps) vs mastery, here's some more thoughts. Well at level 85 the 30% 50% 70% caps probably exist too, just the number of needed haste rating is higher then. So we have heard that 781 and 1406 are the sweet spots for haste(I don't know where 852 came from). This is because when you add +5% haste buff, given by Moonkin, Shadow Priest, or Wrath of Air Totem (if shaman is not using melee haste totem instead), then you get 30% or 50% haste which gives extra tick for UA and Immolation, therefore increasing their DPET. For destro the benefit at these "caps" is largest because conflagrate gets more damage too from that extra tick. For demo the ticks doesn't matter if you refresh immo with HoG but you should avoid being slightly under one of the caps because then immo duration is short and refreshing thru HoG becomes very difficult. For affliction the UA tick caps are least critical but still worth something, for SB affliction haste is probably always worth more than mastery up till 1406+. --- But... if you can't reach 1406 there's plenty of room between 781 and 1406, here's some other interesting spots that makes things little more complex in practice: 795 = If you use Improved Soul Fire properly at the start before Immolate, the 15% haste buff gets you over 50% here which gives the extra tick, note that ISF might be changing in future. 805 = If you have Bloodlust/Heroism (and 5% buff), you need this much gear haste to get to 70% which gives yet another Immo tick, so I'd recommend this to be minimum haste for all specs because it's so close to 781 and 795. (also I read BL and ISF won't stack) 984 = You need this for extra tick if your raid doesn't have +5% haste buff 999 = Without 5% buff you need this to make Improved Soul Fire to get you to 50% haste 1010 = Still without 5% buff but Bloodlust here gets you to 70% 1088 = With 5% buff, improved soul fire(15%) and black magic(250) this will get you to 70%, which is very likely to happen to your 1st or 2nd immolate. 1146 = 5% + 20%(power infusion or berserker) gets you to 70% 1156 = If you use Black Magic enchant, here it raises haste to 1406 part of time 1166 = Hyperspeed accelerators(engineering), same effect as above --- So get minimum of 805 haste if you have 5% haste buff always(Moonkin, Shadow Priest, or Wrath of Air Totem), if you are unsure about buffs and do a lot of randoms, 1010 haste can be a good goal too. If you have black magic and engineering enchants, then 1166 looks like a good spot to aim for if you don't need to sacrifice too much good stats for it, but if you can get to 1406 get that and use SP enchants instead. It really depends on how much haste your gear allows to get, but even between these caps, haste will affect your other spells too, but I haven't seen really any stat weight simcrafts for these gear levels. ps. Zion - Casting Haste Calculator Last edited by Spellman; November 09, 2010 at 04:22 AM.. |
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