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November 04, 2005, 05:57 AM
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#21 (permalink) |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
My view is that Soul Link in raids is kinda worhtless, if you want to compete in dps you will have either to have the succubus out (for the MD bonus) or sacrifice the Succubus, if you sacrifice you can't soul link, and soul link with the succubus out is not that great, and won't give you much more survival if you aggro anything in a 40 man instance. If you are in a tank group soul link becomes even more worthless, you will have the imp out and soul link with the imp is not very good. Now, i'm not saying Soul Link is not good, soul link is great and can be very useful in fights like razorgore, etc. what i think is that if you want to maximize your dps and you are demonology you should go with ruin intead of Soul Link. There's also the Shadow Mastery/Demonic sacrifice build, i haven't tried yet, so i can't coment on that much, in that you lose all destruction talents but gain a 25% increase in shadow damage. I should try that someday ;) If you are talking about pvp, then is a whole different thing and all depends on your style of play, soul link maybe be better, altough i prefer to have more burst damage in pvp (especiallly with the new deathcoil). And yes, destruction is not all about ruin, Improved shadowbolt, bane, devastation, shadowburn are a must in every dps build a warlock makes, i don't recomend going higher than ruin at this point because the fire resistance every raid intance has, but when new raid instances come (and ZG is a exemple of that) where you can use fire, than a full destruction build will be a viable alternative. Keep in mind, i'm only talking about doing damage, soul link offers lot more than ruin in many ways, but if you want to maximize damage potential i think ruin for the cost of one point is a great talent (and yes, the big crits are very nice, nothing like see a charging warrior dropping with a 5k crit  )
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November 04, 2005, 08:40 AM
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#22 (permalink) |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
In my opinion Rogue is best at DPS but warlock is at the top normally 2nd or 3rd for me. Im unique though my build is for PVP so I got alot of points in destruction and my crit for soulfire is really high.
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Realm: Doomhammer<br />Name: Aros<br />Class: Warlock<br />LvL: 60<br />Guild: Windward<br />Professions: Enchanting/Tailoring<br />Nemesis: 2/8 |
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November 04, 2005, 05:40 PM
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#23 (permalink) | |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
Quote:
Comparing just SL and Ruin, if someone came up to me and said "You can have a talent that gives you an increase of 8% DPS, or another talent that only gives you 3% DPS, but an effective 30% more HP" I'd be hard pressed to say that Ruin wins out here. Heck, having Soul Link lets me swap out some +STA gear for more damage gear, so I can easily make up the 5% difference. Anyhow, I'm just kinda chafed when I read "SM/Ruin or MD/Ruin are the *only* viable builds for end game instances", with nothing to back it up. People *perceive* Ruin as this great talent, but I have yet to hear anyone back it up with actual numbers to demonstrate why it's so much better (and you have to gear for crits instead of pure damage to make the most of Ruin anyway, which also affects your DPS if you are unlucky and don't get crits). It's great if Ruin fits in with your personal play style (The occasional 5K crit would be fun , but I think there are other viable builds. Personally, if I'm solely looking to do damage in end-game instances, I'd probably try SM/DS as you describe above - 25% to shadow damage > almost anything else (plus, since I'm not speccing for crits, I can pile on the damage gear and have a much less spiky DPS, so I don't accidentally aggro something with a couple of unlucky crits in a row). But I'd never go so far as to say it's the only viable build. |
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November 05, 2005, 02:47 AM
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#24 (permalink) |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll be saying it again, but here is the list of talents that increase shadowbolt dps: Bane is +17% dps DS Succubus is +15% ShadowMastery/MD are +10% each Ruin is +6-9% (depending on how much crit gear you wear) Soul Link is now +3% I've tried every build out there for both PvP (AB mostly) and PvE (MC, Ony, with limited BWL and strat/scholo/brs/dm and cash farming solo). The highest dps build I have had is 7/21/23. Check my profile in my sig to see exactly where I put points. I can still crit for well over 3k at least once or twice per MC clear (My high tonight was 3339 on a Firelord). If you want to do dps, you use Curse of Doom on offtanked mobs, and spam shadowbolt on the MT's mob. Shadowbolt with Bane and no +damage gear is just over 200 dps, but with Bane, Ruin, damage gear, and a sacrificed succubus, I can consistantly push 350-400dps on single mobs in MC. Conversely, stacking Corruption, Agony, Siphon Life, and Immolate on a single target is around 145 dps. In my opinion, this is broken. If a warlock and a mage each can spend the same amount of time nuking a target, the warlock will win if they are the right spec with the same gear as the mage. I think that our nuking dps needs to be lowered, while our DOT dps should be raised significantly, and Decursive and similar addons ruin our DOTs for pvp. With a sacrificed voidwalker for Ragnaros tonight, my total damage done was just over 95,000. The highest mage on the raid had around 65,000, which is definitely not balanced. Say we have some hypothetical mob that you can just unload on; it will just sit there and take damage, so you don't have to worry about aggro at all. A very well geared rogue can do the most dps against said mob, followed by warlocks in +damage gear and dps-specced warriors. Hunters are next, then mages. Since this isn't how a mob behaves for real though; typically warlocks cannot use as much +damage gear as we should, nor can we chain-cast shadowbolt without pulling aggro. Because of this, rogues and hunters can normally beat warlocks for damage in certain fights. In places like ubrs, scholo, strat, etc though, warlocks should be far and away the highest damage dealer.
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Dinadass<br />Officer of Storm<br />http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?34903 |
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November 05, 2005, 03:13 PM
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#25 (permalink) | |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
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But only Bane and Ruin increase damage from +damage gear. DS, SM, MD, SL act like +damage gear. This is how much +damage each talent add: Bane is +17% dps = 95 + (+damage gear)*17% [+damage]Â Â Â Â Â Ruin is +6-9% (SpellCrit% / 2) = 50+ (+damage gear)*9% [+damage] DS Succubus is +15% = 84 [+damage] ShadowMastery/MD are +10% each = 56 [+damage] Soul Link is now +3% = 17 [+damage] |
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November 06, 2005, 10:03 PM
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#26 (permalink) | |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
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Thanks for the great info Dinadass and Raibais! |
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November 07, 2005, 06:59 AM
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#27 (permalink) |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
Personally, I don't really care about my DPS output. I see myself in more of a support role in high level instances. We usually only have 3-4 Warlocks in a 40 man raid so I'm usually on Banish duty, babysitting an elemental for 5-10 minutes at a time. I usually cast CoS or CoE so Curse of Agony is out. Yes, I CoD offtank mobs but that is equivalent to about 53 DPS. The rest of the time I spam Shadowbolts which hit for around 600 and usually crit for 1200 or so. The days of 2000-3000 SB crits have been over for me since the Ruin "adjustment".
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LvL 60 Human Warlock/Destruction spec <br />Shattered Hand PvP |
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November 07, 2005, 07:18 AM
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#28 (permalink) |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
Ruin was not nerfed fish! I wish people would stop saying it was because RUIN WAS NOT NERFED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was supposed to be nerfed but Blizzard changed their minds and plans to review how Curse of Elements and Shadows work in 1.9 in terms of debuffing. It's becoming a pet peeve of mind, people who keep saying Ruin was nerfed but it was not. |
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November 07, 2005, 02:13 PM
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#29 (permalink) | |
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Re: Our DPS compared to x...
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When people say they are getting 3000pt SB crits, does that mean that their normal SBs are hitting for 1500 (due to CoS/Shadow vulnerability)? Or is there something in the spell crit code that occasionally causes > 2x damage? |
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