seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction

Xaos · April 04, 2008, 01:51 AM

Ok, my guild are currently farming MH/Bt and working on Sunwell, our raid leaders requested that for Bruty we have 1 affliction lock with maxed out shadow embrace, to lessen tank damage.

What i'd like help with is working out an optimal spec and gear/gems for a late raid affliction lock, i've searched around but as 0/21/40 is generally considered better dps all the endgame guilds i've found deal with that spec
(which is what i normally am)

The limits on the affliction build are..
-It must have 5/5 shadow embrace
-It's just for raiding
-36yd Sb would be helpful, but not if more DPS can be gained without them
-Assume access to all MH/BT loot, but not sunwell (robe pattern still refuses to drop :p)

that said anyone got ideas on optimal gear/gems/enchants so we can run an affliction lock whos still able to pump out some half decent damage.

(if i've missed a guide called "end game affliction" sorry :D )

Assia · April 04, 2008, 02:46 AM

A site worth looking at is the Raiding Compendium on the Elitist Jerks site, its long but worth a read.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-w...ng_compendium/

Theleb · April 04, 2008, 05:10 AM

Well, the talents are the same for any affliction utility build, just hit up your Guild Bank for loads of +damage gems, and stack those into your normal gear. Assuming you went through your "probationary period" as affliction you'll have an idea how to play it

Couple of thoughts:

1) 4 part T6 still has value for an aff/destro build so its probably worth hanging onto.
2) Stack masses of shadow damage, don't worry "too" much about crit for keeping the ISB debuff up (Boots of the Shifting Nightmare over Boots of Blasting for example).
3) If you can change Trinkets to Hex Shrunken Head and Timbals/Crusade those are totally win for affliction builds.

I'll move this baby over to the "Talent Builds - Ask for help" section with a redirect from here and lets see what we can come up with. I think that in the coming weeks this is going to be a question we see arising a couple of times.

5/5 Shadow Embrace and Imp Curse of Weakness OR 5/5 SE and Malediction?

First example I can think of buffs the tank with Imp. Imp, and debuffs Bruty with 5/5 SE and Imp Curse of Weakness. Thats the best you can do for tank surviveability:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Or as its a DPS-fight you might want to drop Imp CoW and the Imp to go for Malediction:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Fel Concentration to allow you to Drain Life through damage in case you need topping up, and Imp Curse of Agony for an extra DoT on long-lived trash?

In both cases I haven't put any points in suppression as they'd (I assume) be fairly superfluous with access to gear of that level - if thats not the case you can change around some points in there for Fel Concentration/Imp Curse of Agony.

What sort of stats would you be looking at with your current gearing?

Xaos · April 04, 2008, 05:39 AM

thanks for the feedback so far.

currently (though i may not be the one to spec 5/5 SE)
I have the following (Fel armor only )
230+hit (curse you Tier 6 loot)
1368+shadow (1315+dam)
27% to 30% crit (depending on items)
2%-6% passive haste (depending on items)

So theleb, you think Hex Shrunken Head and Timbals/Crusade would be better than Hex Shrunken Head and Skull of Guldan ?
And just Gem/enchant for as much +damage as possible ?
(the new +haste/dam gems dont help afflic as much as 12dam gems eh?)

Which ever of our guild locks does this (we raid with 2-3) will definatly be taking 3/3 Mal and be on CoS duty too.

Zetra · April 04, 2008, 06:39 AM

I have read somewhere that improved CoW is replaced by improved demo shout (and your fury warriors will keep this up).

Been raiding as affliction for quite some time. My problem has always been that I dont want less then 20 points in destruction, reach, crit, and 70% to avoid interuption on SB (will always be about 50% of DPS).

And its not possible to get shadow embrace and malediction into that setup.

An alternative you might want to try out since you have alot of crit gear from T6-content:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

/Zetra

Theleb · April 04, 2008, 06:47 AM

I would say that if you don't need the pure stats from the skull then Timbals/Crusade might be better - I'd have to run the numbers through Leulier's but it doesn't seem to take into account "superfluous" stats like too much hit.

I'd be inclinded (and this is only a personal feeling, I haven't theorycrafted it) to stack a massive amount of damage for certain, then probably haste/crit simply to lower the GCD in the first case, and keep up the ISB debuff if you go that way. If CoW is overwritten by imp demo then drop that for Malediction and you should still be boosting raid dps/tank surviveability.

Debuff · April 04, 2008, 07:15 AM

I'm pretty sure at your gear level the affliction/ruin utility build (as promoted by cascade) would be your best bet. It picks up SE, malediction, imp. imp, and ruin (but not UA).

Cascade · April 04, 2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debuff

I'm pretty sure at your gear level the affliction/ruin utility build (as promoted by cascade) would be your best bet. It picks up SE, malediction, imp. imp, and ruin (but not UA).

Yeah, its been my experience...Ruin does better in Hyjal and BT than UA. Regardless of spreadsheets that place them at or about the same (either way depending on group make-up). With Ruin I usually stay in the top 10 for damage dealt for each boss. Sometimes abit better but then again I'm a utility spec. Also, it seems on alot of farming runs, the tank doesn't need the imp and I get thrown into a regular spell dps group...which really helps.

Here was the latest terron kill...with a 38/2/21
http://wowwebstats.com/1mkfjmg1mqqbs?s=2401-2649
bloodboil wasn't too bad
http://wowwebstats.com/1mkfjmg1mqqbs?s=10177-10669

The dps is always low but the relative damage is decent.

My current armory is off as I've been trying a fire destro spec for the last few weeks so the gear isn't relevant atm.
My experience with ruin has been hit>dam=haste>crit.
Dot rotation is Immo, corruption, SL and then spam SB only refreshing corruption and SL. Trying to keep long strings of SB spam taking advantage of cool downs and heroisms. You really try and mimic a destro build not neccessarily refreshing all dots. I seem to see more strings of crits this way which just build off of ISB.
if I recall correctly, i think I had 114 haste, 1450 shadow dam (total w/ Crusade), about 21% buffed crit (26% w/ dev) -> I don't have 4T6 yet.

if you have to provide the SE, Malediction and Imp...I believe you'll get more damage per boss fight with ruin. just my opinion.

Theleb · April 04, 2008, 08:45 AM

Aye, avoiding Malediction I used to run a 35/4/21 and it was highly competitive (tank imp
bitch).

Malevevely · April 04, 2008, 09:51 AM

Definite Util aff/ruin at your gear level. Gem choice is pretty much 12 damage for all. Your belt has a hit/stam gem which is a pretty crappy raiding gem in general at any level. Zetra has posted the ideal build for what you are looking for.

As for trinket choice I would keep the skull but def change the airmans ribbon to crusade or the new MT trinket. Just keep stacking damage ruin will do pretty well but your gear level is fine that you can just stack damage.

April 04, 2008, 01:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
Xaos Member Character Info Xaos 70 Undead Warlock Defias Brotherhood Euro RP PvP Guild: Last Stand Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction Ok, my guild are currently farming MH/Bt and working on Sunwell, our raid leaders requested that for Bruty we have 1 affliction lock with maxed out shadow embrace, to lessen tank damage. What i'd like help with is working out an optimal spec and gear/gems for a late raid affliction lock, i've searched around but as 0/21/40 is generally considered better dps all the endgame guilds i've found deal with that spec (which is what i normally am) The limits on the affliction build are.. -It must have 5/5 shadow embrace -It's just for raiding -36yd Sb would be helpful, but not if more DPS can be gained without them -Assume access to all MH/BT loot, but not sunwell (robe pattern still refuses to drop :p) that said anyone got ideas on optimal gear/gems/enchants so we can run an affliction lock whos still able to pump out some half decent damage. (if i've missed a guide called "end game affliction" sorry :D )

April 04, 2008, 02:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Assia Lurker Character Info Porsha 70 Human Warlock Silvermoon Euro PvE Guild: Schism Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 42/1/18	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction A site worth looking at is the Raiding Compendium on the Elitist Jerks site, its long but worth a read. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-w...ng_compendium/

April 04, 2008, 05:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction Well, the talents are the same for any affliction utility build, just hit up your Guild Bank for loads of +damage gems, and stack those into your normal gear. Assuming you went through your "probationary period" as affliction you'll have an idea how to play it Couple of thoughts: 1) 4 part T6 still has value for an aff/destro build so its probably worth hanging onto. 2) Stack masses of shadow damage, don't worry "too" much about crit for keeping the ISB debuff up (Boots of the Shifting Nightmare over Boots of Blasting for example). 3) If you can change Trinkets to Hex Shrunken Head and Timbals/Crusade those are totally win for affliction builds. I'll move this baby over to the "Talent Builds - Ask for help" section with a redirect from here and lets see what we can come up with. I think that in the coming weeks this is going to be a question we see arising a couple of times. 5/5 Shadow Embrace and Imp Curse of Weakness OR 5/5 SE and Malediction? First example I can think of buffs the tank with Imp. Imp, and debuffs Bruty with 5/5 SE and Imp Curse of Weakness. Thats the best you can do for tank surviveability: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Or as its a DPS-fight you might want to drop Imp CoW and the Imp to go for Malediction: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Fel Concentration to allow you to Drain Life through damage in case you need topping up, and Imp Curse of Agony for an extra DoT on long-lived trash? In both cases I haven't put any points in suppression as they'd (I assume) be fairly superfluous with access to gear of that level - if thats not the case you can change around some points in there for Fel Concentration/Imp Curse of Agony. What sort of stats would you be looking at with your current gearing? Last edited by Theleb; April 04, 2008 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Link to builds

April 04, 2008, 05:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
Xaos Member Character Info Xaos 70 Undead Warlock Defias Brotherhood Euro RP PvP Guild: Last Stand Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction thanks for the feedback so far. currently (though i may not be the one to spec 5/5 SE) I have the following (Fel armor only ) 230+hit (curse you Tier 6 loot) 1368+shadow (1315+dam) 27% to 30% crit (depending on items) 2%-6% passive haste (depending on items) So theleb, you think Hex Shrunken Head and Timbals/Crusade would be better than Hex Shrunken Head and Skull of Guldan ? And just Gem/enchant for as much +damage as possible ? (the new +haste/dam gems dont help afflic as much as 12dam gems eh?) Which ever of our guild locks does this (we raid with 2-3) will definatly be taking 3/3 Mal and be on CoS duty too. Last edited by Xaos; April 04, 2008 at 05:42 AM.

April 04, 2008, 06:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
Zetra Member Character Info Zetra 70 Undead Warlock Laghing Skull Euro PvP Guild: Nordic Reign Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction I have read somewhere that improved CoW is replaced by improved demo shout (and your fury warriors will keep this up). Been raiding as affliction for quite some time. My problem has always been that I dont want less then 20 points in destruction, reach, crit, and 70% to avoid interuption on SB (will always be about 50% of DPS). And its not possible to get shadow embrace and malediction into that setup. An alternative you might want to try out since you have alot of crit gear from T6-content: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft /Zetra

April 04, 2008, 06:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction I would say that if you don't need the pure stats from the skull then Timbals/Crusade might be better - I'd have to run the numbers through Leulier's but it doesn't seem to take into account "superfluous" stats like too much hit. I'd be inclinded (and this is only a personal feeling, I haven't theorycrafted it) to stack a massive amount of damage for certain, then probably haste/crit simply to lower the GCD in the first case, and keep up the ISB debuff if you go that way. If CoW is overwritten by imp demo then drop that for Malediction and you should still be boosting raid dps/tank surviveability.

April 04, 2008, 07:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Debuff Subscriber Character Info Debuff 70 Orc Warlock Sargeras US PvP Guild: Fenrir Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction I'm pretty sure at your gear level the affliction/ruin utility build (as promoted by cascade) would be your best bet. It picks up SE, malediction, imp. imp, and ruin (but not UA).

April 04, 2008, 08:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction Aye, avoiding Malediction I used to run a 35/4/21 and it was highly competitive (tank imp bitch).

April 04, 2008, 09:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
Malevevely Member Character Info Malevevely 70 Undead Warlock KJ US PvP	Re: seeking theorycrafted advice with T6 affliction Definite Util aff/ruin at your gear level. Gem choice is pretty much 12 damage for all. Your belt has a hit/stam gem which is a pretty crappy raiding gem in general at any level. Zetra has posted the ideal build for what you are looking for. As for trinket choice I would keep the skull but def change the airmans ribbon to crusade or the new MT trinket. Just keep stacking damage ruin will do pretty well but your gear level is fine that you can just stack damage.