0/40/21 vs. 0/21/40

[Razenar]

I was wondering if anyone has done any calculations on the potential DPS output of a 0/40/21 build? It seems like a risky build, but if you had the "void star talisman" and 2 piece tier 5 set bonus... you could likely keep your succubus alive, even with soul link active.

DPS wise, you loose 3% spell crit from "backlash", and 20% bonus spell damage effects on shadow bolt from "Shadow and Flame" that you would have a typical Destruction Build.

But you would gain: 10% to all damage caused from having your succubus out with "Master Demonologist", 5% damage from "Soul Link", ~200 additional spell Damage from "Demonic Knowledge", and 5% spell crit from "Demonic Tactics".... Additionally, whenever it is safe, your Succubus can be DPSing as well.


Any feedback would be appreciated,
Razenar

[Ashesteris]

Keeping the Succy alive is actually fairly easy even without the talisman. Simply have her stand further back - set her to stay. she'll be out of range for almost all AOE, you're ranged anyway, so if you stay at max range you're golden.

Some fights might prove challenging... I was specced demo for leo tanking and went 0/40/21 the other night for the whole SSC run. Succy only died once the whole time. DPS was fairly decent, but a little under 0/21/40 with a sacrificed Succy.

[Kryptix]

Im curious as to the differences and advantages of these 2 builds. My guild is very casual and we are progressing slowly (bout half of kara every other week). I belive I have the gear to support a decent 0/21/40 build (and therefore i did spec that) but unless we have another lock or 2, my raid wants me to use my imp and even without saccing a pet for dps, i still over agro my tanks WAY to easy. I was thinking that maybe the imp with MD lowering my threat is really nice and i am pretty much still garunteed to top the meters. (not to disrespect my guild or any1 in it, but i was always #1 in damage done even in SL/SL spec, mostly due to gear. thanks Cpimp! ...)

Amory Profile (Im 11 badges away from Tormented Demonsoul Robes, so more spell damage and 2.26% crit is on the way...)

Normal Gear (Fel Armor only):
Spell damage = 1024
Hit Rating = 143 = 11.3%
Crit Chance = 18.5% tooltip = 23.5% total talented
Spell Haste = 0

Boss Gear (Fel Armor only):
Spell damage = 980
Hit Rating = 201 = 15.93% (i can easily get 202+ if i just regem 1 gem...i know)
Crit Chance = 17.3% tooltip = 22.3% total talented
Spell Haste = 0


Anyways, here is my current build. I have it so i do Shadow (CoS, SBs) for raids, and Fire (CotE, Immo, Incin's) for personal dps, like in heroics.

Here is my alternate build i was thinking of. Let me know what you guys think. I believe this would be Shadow all the time though (maybe CoS, Immo, SBs, if immo is still worth it. and its always a nice spell to open with to give tanks a little more time to gain agro vrs a horribly timed SB crit right off the bat...)

[Lacky]

As far as aggro. It is something you will always have to deal with. A lot of kara bosses require the ranged to just stand still and unleash on the boss. You find that with an equally geared tank your damage will always be threat capped in raids where there is little movement. I face the same problems in Mount Hyjal that you are in Kara.

Honestly the imp does not provide much additional benefit in Kara.

[Kryptix]

Lacky,

I would have to agree with you, i dont see the point of the imp, especially if im in the dps group. BUT, i would gain 2% more crit with 0/40/21, about 150 spell damage, AND a total of -30% threat generated should i have that imp out, as well as +10% overall damage done with succy out. I am not considering Soul Link becuase many times its not very viable, because even trash mobs that AoE and i get hit sometimes kills my pets with soul link... especially the imp and succy, but its still a +5% damage availble if i want it.

The main thing i would be losing i think would be the fire capabilities but oh well, and the SnF coeff buffs.

Thoughts?

[Vrantu]

I've tried 0/40/21 and it's an interesting spec. For some gear setups at least it shows higher dps on the spreadsheet, assuming a soul linked succubus is able to be attacking. (which can be hard to manage)

I found the threat reduction from the imp nice, if the raid needed an imp out and I was the only warlock, for example. Of course having the succubus out is better for damage, but in some cases I would use the imp.

And it's a better spec for Leo tanking than 0/21/40, and better in pvp. But I've gone back to 0/21/40 after trying it out.

[Necronomis]

40/21 is great in fights you can just stand still and nuke (lurker for example). It's also nice not having to worry so much about threat. Imp + Salvation = you gotta be retarded to pull it off the tank. After Kara 21/40 will start to pull away and you'll notice lower dps on fights that require a lot of movement.

It's a great spec for those lacking awesome gear

[Cascade]

I tried the 0/40/21 and just had alot of frustration with keeping the succy alive. Even with 2T5 and the voidstar, there were simply too many encounters with heavy AoE that crush her.

when she can attack and stay up, like Terron, Lurker, Tidewalker, Solarian...its a great dps jump.

losing that 20% for SnF is a huge dps loss.

low starting gear levels its ok to kinda play around with as long as your buffers are patient.

[Kryptix]

Well I did go 0/40/21 and I must say i do like it. Yes i lose a little bit of dps from no SnF but the imps threat reduction has come in very handy. And with regards to the succy, if i have her out, i usually just have her parked next to me and rarely even send her in to attack. Shes just there to boost me +10% (or +15% with soul link). plus i like my demons, and how they buff me and such, not just sacc'ing them. =/

Anyways, thanks for all your input guys.

[Vrantu]

Also, 0/40/21 is great for running heroics where you have a succubus out for cc.